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Sashi-men
Topic Started: Dec 20 2010, 04:56 PM (575 Views)
G. Ando
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Hi everyone. Long time no use.

As stated on my facebook page, I was watching the 2009 Detroit Tournament DVD Chris George graciously burned for us.

As I help you guys prepare (I probably won't be able to make the Detroit Tournament unfortunately) for the taikai in February, I wanted to open up a discussion.

Sashi men vs. tobikomi men

While I know that sashi-men (hitting men on the upstroke of the shinai as opposed to a very pronounced upswing then strike) can be frustrating to do and get hit WITH since it can be kind of weak, what do you think about it?

Since none of us are in the All-Japan Kendo Tournament (that I know of) where it's particularly used with great effect, how do you feel? Should we practice it for taikai? Or should we stick with straight tobikomi men?

I personally would love to work more on it since my men in particular is such a weak strike (in terms of form and use) but want to know if you guys think we should take a step back and dedicate time to tobikomi men beforehand.

Abayo!

Gin
Gin Ando

花の陰此世をさみす人も有。

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Chris
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Ariga-sensei has on a number of occasions steered me away from sashi men. His reasoning...it's too weak. I agree completely, but here is the practical reason why. Consider the recent Johnson cup. How many flags did you see from our inexperienced shimpan for hits that were less than definitive? Not many. So why practice a technique that results in a questionable strike most of the time? The dudes from the All Japan Championships have foot stomps and hand speed that is so ungodly, that when a strike does connect people take notice. So my advice is to just focus on solid strikes with a good downward strike. The movement can then be very abbreviated through techniques learned with experience. If you want what you are seeing in those videos I honestly suggest you look to their footwork versus anything done with their arms.
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G. Ando
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Chris
Dec 22 2010, 11:57 PM
Ariga-sensei has on a number of occasions steered me away from sashi men. His reasoning...it's too weak. I agree completely, but here is the practical reason why. Consider the recent Johnson cup. How many flags did you see from our inexperienced shimpan for hits that were less than definitive? Not many. So why practice a technique that results in a questionable strike most of the time? The dudes from the All Japan Championships have foot stomps and hand speed that is so ungodly, that when a strike does connect people take notice. So my advice is to just focus on solid strikes with a good downward strike. The movement can then be very abbreviated through techniques learned with experience. If you want what you are seeing in those videos I honestly suggest you look to their footwork versus anything done with their arms.
Interesting... Well, if Ariga-sensei says not to, then we probably shouldn't. While I was looking through some photos of the UC club in action, we seem to hit men almost in a katsugi waza kind of style, which is kind of weird. I mean pulling back and hitting downward for a men strike makes sense, I'm just kind of thinking we do it too much? Or is that OK? Not sure, just throwing it all out there.
Gin Ando

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Chris G
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I guess I should whip out an article written by Imafuji sensei about this very thing.

It seems like the sashi men is more of a tournament phenomenon in Japan. It's quick, simple to do, and probably easy to play off if all the other elements in yuko-datotsu (successful strike) are there so I can see why it's probably been used in the tournament setting. But, because of the way it's described, it really doesn't accomplish the concept of Kendo since there really isn't any cutting going on there. Jim told me a while back that Ariga sensei said that these kinds of hits are okay in the tournament setting, but it's really opposite of what he teaches for the reasons that Chris R. said.

I agree that we should try to put some more focus on doing tobikomi men, both big and small. It's one thing to go for the target, but it's another thing to be able to go at it in a way that can make a solid hit to the point where there's no question that it's a good hit and be able to dominate over an ai-men attempt. The problem is that it's one thing to want to do it, but it's another thing to be able to put it in words and improve upon what we already know.
Christopher George
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Chris
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Gin, that pulling back thing you is commonly two things. Fear of losing a kote point or not committing. Of course it is a valid technique to use, but if not done sparingly it will get taken advantage of. With the UC club, I might say it is probably too much right hand usage. Instead of pushing out with the left hand to get in position, they are pulling up with the right. That makes the tip shoot straight up and back. It happens a lot when people are nervous about committing. They sort of hold the strike back before committing by pulling on that right hand. It should be lessened if possible. More direct and limited movement is preferred.
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G. Ando
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Yeah. The right arm thing was really getting to me. I'm trying to consciously restrict the movement so that the left arm propels forward as opposed to back and downward and letting my body move closer to close the distance.

Thanks!
Gin Ando

花の陰此世をさみす人も有。

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