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| BSG Final Season; This is it folks! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 4 2008, 07:09 PM (1,682 Views) | |
| geogirl | Feb 7 2009, 08:23 PM Post #51 |
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Brown Coat Forever!!!
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Well, I have decided that I don't care how this show ends anymore. Why? Because someone finally put a bullet in Tom Zarek and that is enough to make me happy!!!!! I call Starbuck to be on my team! Seriously, even if it's the wrong side I don't care. I don't want to go against her...ever! And how nice was it that she stayed to help Sam. I mean, the girl may be a wack job when it comes to relationships but she will never abandon someone she cares about. Hurt them, use them, play games with their mind, yes...but abandon, No. Next week looks to be really good. The final Cylon returns and I bet she is bringing a whole lot of answers with her. Let's just hope she doesn't hold a grudge...right Tigh? And yes....Mom and Dad are back together again. How can you not love Roslin and Adama together. Awwwwww. |
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| MACJR | Feb 8 2009, 09:59 PM Post #52 |
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Fledgling Post-Monkey
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I feel much the same as you do about BSG, Kirock. I also prefer the safer, saner, and more sanitary universe of Star Trek. BSG is just so dark and bleak, especially this season. If anyone bothered to compose them, I wonder what the suicide statistics for the faithful viewers of this show would be. Yeah, I can see the viewpoint and reasoning as to why this show, or this version of this show, has to be this dark... but I don't have to like it or agree. Even though a part of me suspects that there may be way too much truth to this show, I would much rather be deluded into thinking we can and would be better than the characters of this show are. The FX and acting are first rate, but those stories... I would rather be watching something else. I think the only reason I am still watching BSG is that there is nothing else of interest for me in that timeslot right now. I also figure that I have managed to watch this show this long so I might as well watch it all the way to the dismal end… if I can take it just a little longer. I do hope BSG goes out with a positive spin, but I sure would not want to bet on that. MACJR |
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| jdono | Feb 8 2009, 11:35 PM Post #53 |
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Until I can think of some other photo...
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I finally got around to watching this week's show and it was another eventful one. I kinda feel sorry for Felix. The poor guy lost his leg, then gets so depressed about the way things were going that he felt his only out was to ally himself with Tom Zerek. He felt strongly about his beliefs and I could see his point about siding with the rebel Cylons. Unfortunately, he was so overcome with changing the staus-quo that he never thought that the alternative could be worse, and it certainly was. I knew Zerek was bad news, but I didn't think he was capable of doing what he did. ( He seemed like such a nice guy a few years ago when I met him in Vancouver :) ). Next week looks to be intersesting too. I hope they don't spill all the info that Helen may or may not have all at once. I think it needs some time to sink in. |
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| Kerra | Feb 9 2009, 08:49 PM Post #54 |
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20 Years Strong
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I also met my heart-throb Richard Hatch. Man, he is as handsom in person as on TV. :rolleyes: The only thing is that he had obviously been drinking vodka when I met him. :blink: |
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| DennisXIVVVIII | Feb 13 2009, 08:30 AM Post #55 |
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Command Staff
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The Firefly movie was on last night. During it, they had a BSG preview. In that preview Laura tells Apollo when you can't do what's right, do what's smart. One of the Firefly characters (gun nut played by Baldwin I think) said almost the exact same thing in the next segment of the movie. Interesting thought . . . |
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| geogirl | Feb 14 2009, 01:21 PM Post #56 |
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Brown Coat Forever!!!
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Well, I suppose the gist of the quote is correct but what she actually said was " You are so hell bent on doing the right thing, that you sometimes don't do the smart thing." I tape this show because I enjoy fast forwarding throught the commercials. One thing I don't do, however, is fast forward through the opening. No matter how many times I have seen it, I never get tired of it and I always make a point to see it each week because it is a reminder of what these people have been through. It shows where they have come from and what they have had to endure and it also shows how they have grown. One scene above all others that continues to move me is the one where a visibly shaken Roslin is taking the oath of office. It is such a contrast from who she is now. In five years she has grown from that frightened secretary of education to the strong and determined leader of humanity. In that time she learned the hard way that leadership doesn't always mean kindness and survival has so many shades of grey. That was the message she was passing on to Lee. "You are the right one Lee, you have always been the right one." But, she warns, things are not as black and white as you would like them to be. On the surface, no one would ever compare the characters of Jayne and Roslin and say they are similar. But both understand survival very well and I think she and Jayne would agree that in some cases what is right and what is smart do not always go together. As for the rest of the episode all I can say is "WOW!" |
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| DennisXIVVVIII | Feb 14 2009, 02:07 PM Post #57 |
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Command Staff
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Another preview detail: When I heard the "I remember everything" in the previews, I thought that was Adama. In this ep, somebody else says that. Of course, we have 3 additional cylon "models" to look for, or possibly only two, since 7 is apparently extinct . . . Could the other two be Adama and Starbuck? Then again, Deanna tells Laura that she's a cylon! They have us guessing don't they! |
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| geogirl | Feb 14 2009, 03:51 PM Post #58 |
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Brown Coat Forever!!!
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I had to visit the Battlestar Wiki page to double check but we do know all the cylons now. In the beginning we learned there are 12 models: Number 1 - Brother Cavil also known as John. Number 2 - Leoben Number 3 - D'Anna (she was boxed but brought back) Number 4 - Simon (The Doctor who worked on Starbuck when she was captured) Number 5 - Aaron Doral (he was the guy who got left behind at the station in the mini series. Baltar framed him to save his own hide but it turned out he was a cylon anyway.) Number 6 - Well, six (Also know as Gina, Caprica, Natalie) Number 7 - The unseen cylon called Daniel Number 8 - Sharon (Boomer, Athena) And then we have the final 5: Chief Tyrol Col. Tigh Torri Anders Ellen Yes I know, that makes 13. But remember they said Daniel was DEAD. Not boxed, but dead. The amniotic fluid was contaminated so they couldn't "grow" any more copies of him. Since he is no longer in existance that means there are only 12 copies now. I had to go back and watch it again to get it straight and I'm still not sure I have the full story but the best I can figure is - The final 5 were actually created by humans. They developed or rediscovered the downloading process and promised to give it to their robotic relatives if they stopped the original war with the humans. The process involves making clones to "download" the consciousness into and that is why they only have a few models. Because they only have a few "blueprints" so to speak of the particular type of human clones they need. Or something like that. Am I on the right track here or did you guys get something different out of it? [BTW, this is all a very nice set up for the spin off show called CAPRICA. I believe the main story of that show deals with a man who looses his daughter and makes a kind of robotic clone of her to deal with his grief. This must be the beginning of Human like cylons and probably what lead to the "Final 5" we have in BSG.] |
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| jdono | Feb 14 2009, 08:21 PM Post #59 |
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Until I can think of some other photo...
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Ho-hum, another uneventful episode. Well, not quite. What this episode lacked in action it certainly made up for in getting some answers. The story really seems to be shaping up. I think my favorite part of the show was the passion of "John" when confronting Ellen. Right or not, he really believes he's entitled to something better than being stuck in a human body and gets that point across. The ting that I'm most interested in finding out when all is said in done is what Starbuck's role is in all of this. I can honestly say I don't have a clue. Finally, how weird was it to see the guy from the Mac - PC ads in that episode as the brain doctor? |
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| geogirl | Feb 15 2009, 07:10 AM Post #60 |
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Brown Coat Forever!!!
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Well, now we know Cylons run on Windows. :D |
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| DennisXIVVVIII | Feb 15 2009, 09:27 AM Post #61 |
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Command Staff
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Were the final 5 all created by humans? If so, Ellen was created by a human. She tells "John" (Cavill), "I gave you something WONDERFUL!" (Shades of 2010) How could Ellen know how wonderful that was unless she was originally human? Which begs the question, where did the original consciouness (memories, cognitive skills, etc) for each model come from? Could it be the original 5 were copies of actual humans, while the other 8 were human personalities written by human consciousnesses with the computing power of a Cylon brain? (Shades of ST:TNG's Data or ST:TOS The Ultimate Computer) So the 3 would lead to the five. D'Anna (the 3 model) knew who the 5th was, but would not tell. Somewhere the number 8 came up. Hence my search for 3 more . . . I think what you said in your post was right . . . After all, they do put that on the screen now about the 11 we know about, and then they showed us Ellen . . . |
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| geogirl | Feb 15 2009, 11:06 AM Post #62 |
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Brown Coat Forever!!!
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Ahhhh, now we're back in familiar territory. Can an artifically intelligent being become human? And what defines being "Human" anyway? These two questions have been around since the beginnings of Science Fiction. They are reoccuring themes that often crop up in many of our favorite shows. Star Trek, Stargate, Andromeda, BSG and even Terminator to some extent (the TV show not the movies.) I tend to come down squarely on the side of No, but I don't mind the stories because it is an excellent way to look at humanity from an "outside" perspective and I think that is where SciFi excells. Why did the 5 create the other humanoid cylons? To better understand the humans? To help promote peace between the two species? To enable reproduction? Something else Ellen mentioned that I found very interesting was that the "One true God" idea came from the robotic cylons NOT the humanoid ones. |
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| DennisXIVVVIII | Feb 15 2009, 02:31 PM Post #63 |
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Command Staff
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I stumbled across Holons while working on something else related to human nature . . . No man is an island . . . . I remember what Londo (?) said once on Babylon 5, "Humans make communities." Come to think of it, that was the basic premise of the entire series, was it not? Speaking of episode intros telling all . . . |
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| Kerra | Feb 15 2009, 05:43 PM Post #64 |
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20 Years Strong
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Great questions Geo. I love to contemplate such things, but then again that is probably why I minored in Philosophy. One of my favorite feature films is "iRobot" because it deals with the issue of what makes someone or something human. I believe it is what Ellen di and said to not only Sharon but to the Centurion also... compassion. Humans have the unique ability to feel and give compassion. It is John's failing that he doesn't think highly enough of compassion, or perhaps it is his fatal flaw. It certainly was Zerek's flaw. And, I have no idea whether any of you have read Milton's "Paradise Lost" but I found it quite interesting the conversation between Ellen and John; reminded me so much of Lucifer's argument against God and his chosen race: humans. BSG has regain imho, its place as best drama on TV. |
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| DennisXIVVVIII | Feb 16 2009, 09:37 AM Post #65 |
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Command Staff
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To restate Geogirl's question slightly: What makes us humans human? Spinning off jdono's quote, a lot of it DOES have to do with the body. Here are some of the things about the human body that separate us from the other animals: 1 Stomach: our efficient digestive system lets us nourish our bodies adequately in less than a couple of hours a day. By way of contrast, grazing animals spend almost all their waking time eating or walking to another place where they haven't already eaten everything. 2 Opposable thumbs: give great manual dexterity to get in all sorts of trouble with. By way of contrast, nearly all other species are very dull in comparison! 3 Binocular eyes: helps us see better while we're getting in trouble! Without opposable thumbs, binocular vision is almost totally useless to other species, predatory birds being a noteable exception. 4 Hairlessness: humans have less hair (or feathers) covering their skin than just about any other land-dwelling species. 5 Frontal Genitalia: in conjunction with hairlessness adds a potential for emotional intimacy during what would otherwise be merely procreative acts. 6 Large Bicameral Brain: used to make maximum use of items 2 - 5. Still, thank God for efficient stomach. After we're caught up with that, it give us time to use said large brain to write about fictional aliens who bitch about having human bodies! :D |
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| Kerra | Feb 16 2009, 11:32 AM Post #66 |
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20 Years Strong
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From Dennis' Holon link: Auther Koestler also points out that holons are autonomous, self-reliant units that possess a degree of independence and handle contingencies without asking higher authorities for instructions. These holons are also simultaneously subject to control from one or more of these higher authorities. The first property ensures that holons are stable forms that are able to withstand disturbances, while the latter property signifies that they are intermediate forms, providing a context for the proper functionality for the larger whole. Are Centurians Holons? Just a part of the greater whole which being a Cylon seems to be all about? And Koestler also postulates the idea: Ghost in the Machine, a phrase used in the movie "iRobot" of which Koestler wrote his famous book. Hey Dennis... this is great stuff. Thanks for the post and the link. :) *Actually I think I would go one step further and say that with the thousands of years we humans have put into the thought of what it means to be human, I believe, we can answer that question fairly well. It is what Ellen says: compassion, love, our feelings of contemplation for ourselves and others that make us unique... and as Straczynski says, our ability to form communities in the idea of prospering for the individual and the community as a whole. And so far as we know, there have never been any type of beings in the known Universe that can achieve these things. |
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| geogirl | Feb 16 2009, 05:36 PM Post #67 |
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Brown Coat Forever!!!
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Great post Dennis but I had to laugh a little bit because it reminded me of another character who would disagree with you. You probably haven't been watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. It's a bit complicated to get into with someone who hasn't been watching the show but long story short a new and very experimental artifical intelligence gets loaded into the body of a Terminator. It is still trying to learn and understand the world. It's handler gives it toys (some kind of robot like things that you have to put together) to play with to learn dexterity and whatnot. The AI is studying the toys and says they are very efficient because they have ball and socket joints which gives it a wide range of motion. Then he starts examining his body and says "Humans have hinge joints at the knees and elbows...very inefficient." I can only imagine what he would think of the human cylon design verses the robots. I mean, they have machine guns in their wrist FCOL!!! By the by...I agree binocular eyes are very handy, but it *would* be pretty darn neat to see infrared and x-rays. Cavil has a point there. I'm just saying... |
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| DennisXIVVVIII | Feb 22 2009, 06:00 AM Post #68 |
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Command Staff
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Just a couple of things . . . As Boomer and Ellen were approaching Galactica, there was a glimpse of BSG:TOS-style centuryians. Later, Galen says, everybody is seeing Centurians . . . Also, Gaius sure was willing to give away other peoples' food wasn't he? And it sure felt good, he said. Then the Sons of Aries show up. What a telling microcosm of what happens in "relief efforts" like that. In real life, the gangs always intercept the goods and horde or use the supplies for profit. |
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| Kerra | Feb 22 2009, 10:08 AM Post #69 |
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20 Years Strong
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I need to watch this episode again, since most of the time my eyelids were shut. :lol: (I am assistant director for our school play and I have been logging some late hours). The only thing I can say about what I did see this week was that I got a very strange feeling from Galen, and I was wondering about Galactica itself? Is there a connection to the Cylons, other than the recent repairs? |
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| Kerra | Feb 28 2009, 10:23 AM Post #70 |
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20 Years Strong
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I get it now! I know why the Hybrid told Starbuck she would be the death of the Cylons. Did anyone watch last night's episode? |
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| geogirl | Feb 28 2009, 07:55 PM Post #71 |
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Brown Coat Forever!!!
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I watched it but I didn't make the connection that you did. Why will Starbuck be the death of the cylons? Poor chief...he just can't win for trying. I'm kind of bummed. I was really hoping Boomer had turned herself around. I always liked those two together. I should have seen it coming though as they did seem to get away from Cavil too easily. Oh, and I'm a little behind. I didn't comment on the episode before so I just want to say this one thing: "Grandpa was a power sander." LOL!!! Best. Line. Ever. |
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| Kerra | Mar 1 2009, 12:25 AM Post #72 |
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20 Years Strong
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I really hate to say anything but it was the Hybrid that told Starbuck that she would be the end to the Cylons. We learned that there was another Cylon named Daniel who was an artist but he was defective so they boxed him, right? Now we see that Starbuck's long lost Daddy is a musician. We already know Kara is an artist: likes to paint. Can Daniel and Starbuck's father be one and the same? |
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| DennisXIVVVIII | Mar 1 2009, 09:15 AM Post #73 |
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Command Staff
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Did the piano player remind anyone else of the cat-hating lawyer? Also, did I see a sequence where Starbuck is talking to the piano player in a close-in shot, and then when the 4 of the final 5 (mostly Tigh) start raving about the music she's playing, they pulled back and the male piano player is not there? Daniel was not boxed exactly. His "dna" was corrupted. All copies are lost. I liked the "power sander" line too! Based on the previews, is BSG gonna' do a B5 style stunt in the final episode? |
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| geogirl | Mar 1 2009, 09:16 AM Post #74 |
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Brown Coat Forever!!!
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Interesting thought Kerra and I had the same idea when I saw that episode. As soon as they mentioned Daniel I thought it might have been Starbuck's father. But then I read this on SyFy Portal: Link Ron Moore Expands On Daniel's BSG Backstory By MICHAEL HINMAN Feb-15-2009 So who is this 13th Cylon, and will we ever see him again? Speculation on the Internet is running rampant, just when the days of trying to figure out who the final Cylon seemed to be at an end. But there is a possibility -- and a strong one -- that this could be the end of the Daniel discussion just as it begins, at least that's what "Battlestar Galactica" executive producer Ronald D. Moore shared with fans during his weekly episode podcast. "This little mystery we were able to mine out of the [Cylon] numbering system," Moore said. "We always said there were 12 Cylon models, but we had posited Sharon as a Number Eight. That was before we came up with the idea of the Final Five, and five plus eight does not equal 12, so how could that have been?" That prompted discussions of whether or not there should be a 13th Cylon, and maybe just one more reveal. But Moore didn't want to turn the franchise in that direction. "We put a pin in the idea of the 13th Cylon as I didn't want to create another, 'Who is the final Cylon?' and create false mysteries on that front," he said. But what that bit of retcon created was some backstory for Dean Stockwell's John Cavil, and allowed the entire "Battlestar" mythology to borrow more from Biblical passages and ideas. "Cavil wiped out an entire model, creating a Cain and Abel moment of this myth," Moore said. "Creation, exodus and all those Biblical themes. This is Cain vs. Abel, and slipping that in there to understand Cavil's character a little more clearly." Now, he could be giving us a load of BS to throw us off the trail but if what he says is true then it sounds like Daniel couldn't be Starbucks father. The key is in the timing. When exactly did Cavil kill Daniel? Did he have a chance to father Starbuck before his model was destroyed? I'm thinking NO. When Ellen downloaded back on the ship all her memories were returned...and one of those memories was of Cavil killing Daniel. If she had the memory then it means it occured BEFORE he whiped their minds and put them with the humans. So, Daniel never would have been put on Kobal and never would have interacted with the humans. Thus...he couldn't have fathered Starbuck. |
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| geogirl | Mar 1 2009, 10:22 AM Post #75 |
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Brown Coat Forever!!!
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sorry for the double post...It took me a while to track down the hybrid quote. I noticed that too Dennis. Since they did a "cut to" shot we don't know the exact timing. I suppose it's possible he left before the others got there but personally I think it means she was hallucinating or having some kind of vision. I don't think he was real. Now, back to Kerra's post. I managed to track down the actual quote from the hybrid and this is what she said. "...Thus will it come to pass ... The Dying Leader will know the truth of the Opera House ... The missing Three will give you the Five, who have come from the home of the Thirteenth ... You are the harbinger of death, Kara Thrace ... You will lead them all to their end." Let's break it down: 1. The Dying Leader will know the truth of the Opera House ...I'm assuming the dying leader is Roslin. The Opera House is where she has the visions of the child Hera. Will Roslin finally learn what makes Hera so special? After last nights episode it certainly looks like she has some kind of connection with the child. I say she is on her way to finding out. 2. The missing Three will give you the Five... D'Anna is the number 3 model. She was boxed at the time (and thus missing) because she saw the face of the final five. Remember, her return and visit to Galactica ultimately led to the reveal of the 4 unknown cylons Chief, Tory, Anders and Tigh (who eventually realized that Ellen was the 5th) 3. who have come from the home of the Thirteenth .. Earth. The Thirteenth tribe were cylons who lived on Earth. The final 5 use to live on Earth until they were sent back to bring a warning to the other tribes. 4. You are the harbinger of death, Kara Thrace ... You will lead them all to their end. Now, here's where it gets tricky. She doesn't tell Kara she will be the death of the Cylons, she says she will bring death to them ALL. But what exactly does she mean here. Death as in actual DEATH? Or maybe a death to the cylons and humans as they are now... i.e. they will merge together and start a new race? Or, we could look at this thing from a completely different angle and say harbinger of death means that Kara will lead them to a place of death (Earth) and leading them to their end means she will take them to the end of their journey. Well, one things for certain. Everything the hybrid said has come true so Starbuck definately has a role in something big that's going to happen. What that is though...is anybodys guess. What do you guys think?? |
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