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Waiting for death
Topic Started: Feb 8 2017, 04:03 AM (1,201 Views)
Alli
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Mistress, House of Cats
My cousin has been in Hospice now for 2 weeks. She has end stage Pancreatic Cancer She has a lovely room and surroundings.... Almost overnight her condition deteriorated. She is now incoherent, from Saturday to Sunday she has gone blind. She is just skin on bones.. We thought she would have passed but I believe she waited for her brother to arrive from Australia.For a family going through the last stages of life it has to be one of the most painful emotionally wrought experiences. I received an email from my sister this morning detailing her condition. I was in tears for a long time. You think back when you were children , the summers spent. Sampling Polish Cigarettes my uncle had stashed but we found... and smoked, were we ever sick! All these thoughts come pouring through your mind.. To see her suffering is unbearable, to see my aunt so distraught, if she could she would gladly trade places... If they could just give her a little extra....... she could close her eyes and sleep eternally..... It seems she may have only hours Her organs are shutting down..... I hope she has a Peaceful transition......
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
Quote:
 
she opted to stop she wanted quality..


I think that is the route I would take if any cancer was found in me. I believe that surgery will either get it all or it won't. If it does, fine, if not "Say goodnight, Gracie." A quart of morphine on the bedtable, please.
Bob won't even talk about this subject but if it ever came down to it, he would lay all the decisions on ME.
Edited by Trotsky, Feb 15 2017, 05:49 AM.
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goldengal
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Mistress, House of Dogs
Too often surgery is not even an option. I have said this before ...... I believe it all depends on age. At my age I would just want pain control but if I was 30 years younger I would certainly fight. Since I have been in the chemo clinic quite a few times in the past month or so I see more and more people age 80 having chemo. Obviously they still think life is worth fighting for. We are all different.

Take care,
Pat
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swing
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swing
I would take the chemo, I would fight, sometimes miracles do happen, I wouldn't want to miss out on one!
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
From everything I have seen, few, if any, people seem to benefit from chemotherapy or radiation...except those administering it.
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Durgan
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Trotsky
Feb 15 2017, 09:12 AM
From everything I have seen, few, if any, people seem to benefit from chemotherapy or radiation...except those administering it.
My wife refused chemo at Princess Margaret. Metastasized breast cancer.
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David
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I've seen lots of people have good results from chemo
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blizzard
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Such sad news.
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Alli
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Mistress, House of Cats
David
Feb 15 2017, 10:14 AM
I've seen lots of people have good results from chemo
If I were to do chemo again for recurring cancer I would not do it. At stage 4 there are very few miracles.
Chemo is one of the worst archaic treatments there is. Basically nothing has changed over the years
In my case I was overdosed with Chemo because my pathology specimens were destroyed by not preserving them They were guessing at the amount to be given I ended up in hospital each time because I became so ill and my white count dropped to zero I opted out of Radiation because it was more of a bandaid treatment and after I pushed hard my Oncologist admitted it wasn't really necessary. The high doses of chemo affected my heart
For my cousin chemo was a palliative method of possibly no guarantees her life would be extended She live 9 months from being diagnosed till she died Sunday :crying:
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agate
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So sorry for your loss Alli. Each of us have to make the decision which we think would
be best for ourselves.

Ron chose treatment and yes it did buy him one extra year but at great cost
and living with it all I know I would not chose that path.

I seen the Notebook this afternoon and the one small scene of all the old folks sitting in wheelchairs
was enough to reinforce my desire to die before 75.
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David
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I LOVE that movie!
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wildie
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agate
Feb 15 2017, 01:40 PM
So sorry for your loss Alli. Each of us have to make the decision which we think would
be best for ourselves.

Ron chose treatment and yes it did buy him one extra year but at great cost
and living with it all I know I would not chose that path.

I seen the Notebook this afternoon and the one small scene of all the old folks sitting in wheelchairs
was enough to reinforce my desire to die before 75.
Quote:
 
and the one small scene of all the old folks sitting in wheelchairs

I see this in real time every Friday afternoon. My son, who is 58 is in a nursing home due to a stroke and I visit him on Fridays.
The place is full of old females who suffer from dementia and can be found littered all over, sound asleep in their wheel-chairs.
The day that I can no longer look after myself, I'll be looking for a euthanasist..
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goldengal
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Mistress, House of Dogs
Quote:
 
The day that I can no longer look after myself, I'll be looking for a euthanasist..


Unfortunately, we might be so affected over night and will not be in a position to make that decision. IMHO we should be able to have our wishes for euthanasia set in place now to be followed when we are no longer cognizant.

Take care,
Pat
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
Alli
Feb 15 2017, 11:36 AM
David
Feb 15 2017, 10:14 AM
I've seen lots of people have good results from chemo
If I were to do chemo again for recurring cancer I would not do it. At stage 4 there are very few miracles.
Chemo is one of the worst archaic treatments there is. Basically nothing has changed over the years
In my case I was overdosed with Chemo because my pathology specimens were destroyed by not preserving them They were guessing at the amount to be given I ended up in hospital each time because I became so ill and my white count dropped to zero I opted out of Radiation because it was more of a bandaid treatment and after I pushed hard my Oncologist admitted it wasn't really necessary. The high doses of chemo affected my heart
For my cousin chemo was a palliative method of possibly no guarantees her life would be extended She live 9 months from being diagnosed till she died Sunday :crying:
Doctors always denigrate "alternative" methods of cancer treatment as "non-proven" by double blind studies and thus of no value and the success stories are just dismissed as "anecdotal."
Do you know that chemotherapy and radiation have never been exposed to honest double blind studies. They have been accepted because they have been accepted, period.
The argument is that it would be "cruel" to do the proper studies and thus deprive a placebo group of the benefits of these treatments but that is precisely the kind of a priori judgments a double blind study seeks to eliminate.

Thus chemotherapy is no better proven to stop cancer than is the extract of apricot seeds (Laeitrile) or bitter almond paste (called Vitamin B-17.)

You cannot in sensible fairness demand double blind studies as proof of efficacy and safety for one protocol and yet embrace another protocol without such studies.
IMHO, accepting chemotherapy as a valid treatment protocol without proof is no different from accepting blood letting of centuries past.

As far as chemotherapy as a palliative treatment, I think most of us can see it clearly as more akin to torture than palliation and I think history will eventually expose current treatment as bogus.

Anecdote: The first chemotherapeutic agent was mustard gas, the same poisonous gas used to kill troops in World War I.
Edited by Trotsky, Feb 16 2017, 01:58 AM.
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goldengal
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Mistress, House of Dogs
Well like David I know people who have been successfully treated with chemo and/or radiation. For my husband chemo did not work but then he was not scheduled for it first but rather radiation and the backup was too large for him to wait.

I do not think any of us can speak to what it does and doesn't do unless we ourselves have had that experience and then not all people are alike and some do not follow through on what helps along with the chemo. My daughter never missed one treatment of chemo with her Inflammatory Breast Cancer because the Neulasta shot she gave herself 24 hours following chemo stimulated the growth of healthy white blood cells. The Neulasta caused a lot of pain initially though and some opt not to do it.

Take care,
Pat
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
Interesting paragraph in today's Times:
Quote:
 
You might think that once, drugs, devices, and medical procedures are shown to be effective they quickly become available. You might also think that those shown not to work as well are immediately discarded.
Reasonable assumptions both, but you'd be wrong.


Quote:
 
Well like David I know people who have been successfully treated with chemo and/or radiation.
That is called anecdotal evidence and after a half century we should not have to rely on anecdotes.
I am sure we all know people who relied on chemotherapy and radiation and died of cancer.
Medical science should be able to provide us with survival percentages WITH and WITHOUT chemotherapy so we, as patients can make informed choice. Because Jane Doe down the block did well or didn't shouldn't be our criteria, neither should the fact that Eli Lilly or Pfizer said "we have seen promising results using mustard gas derivatives."

It seems clear to me that the sole reason the data is not available is that there are a lot of companies petrified that it becomes available for obvious reasons.
Edited by Trotsky, Feb 16 2017, 03:05 AM.
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