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| Waiting for death | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 8 2017, 04:03 AM (1,200 Views) | |
| Alli | Feb 8 2017, 04:03 AM Post #1 |
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Mistress, House of Cats
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My cousin has been in Hospice now for 2 weeks. She has end stage Pancreatic Cancer She has a lovely room and surroundings.... Almost overnight her condition deteriorated. She is now incoherent, from Saturday to Sunday she has gone blind. She is just skin on bones.. We thought she would have passed but I believe she waited for her brother to arrive from Australia.For a family going through the last stages of life it has to be one of the most painful emotionally wrought experiences. I received an email from my sister this morning detailing her condition. I was in tears for a long time. You think back when you were children , the summers spent. Sampling Polish Cigarettes my uncle had stashed but we found... and smoked, were we ever sick! All these thoughts come pouring through your mind.. To see her suffering is unbearable, to see my aunt so distraught, if she could she would gladly trade places... If they could just give her a little extra....... she could close her eyes and sleep eternally..... It seems she may have only hours Her organs are shutting down..... I hope she has a Peaceful transition...... |
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| Trotsky | Feb 16 2017, 03:06 AM Post #31 |
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Big City Boy
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Interesting first paragraph in today's Times:
The article pertains to back surgery but it is applicable to this discussion.
That is called anecdotal evidence and after a half century we should not have to rely on anecdotes. I am sure we all know people who relied on chemotherapy and radiation and died of cancer, the other side of the anecdotal coin. Medical science should be able to provide us with survival percentages WITH and WITHOUT chemotherapy so we, as patients can make informed choices. Because Jane Doe down the block did well or didn't shouldn't be our criteria, neither should the fact that Eli Lilly or Pfizer said "we have seen promising results using mustard gas derivatives." It seems clear to me that the sole reason the data is not available is that there are a lot of companies and oncologists petrified that it becomes available... for obvious reasons. Alli, How much chemotherapy and/or radiation has your poor cousin had to endure to get her to this point? Edited by Trotsky, Feb 16 2017, 03:19 AM.
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| Durgan | Feb 16 2017, 04:05 AM Post #32 |
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Veteran Member
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Trotsky People want to live so will try anything, within their resources. When to throw in the towel is difficult to determine for most people, so we grasp at the medical straws. The human race would be much more healthy without most medicines. Darwin's Theory would take over and many genetic diseases would disappear by natural selection. As to whether chemo is effective or did the job is impossible to ascertain. I have been associated with it in three cases and it was a complete disaster. It usually boils down to a personal choice for some people or blind faith in a medical opinion in others. You pays your money and take your chances. |
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| Alli | Feb 16 2017, 12:07 PM Post #33 |
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Mistress, House of Cats
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Trotsky right as soon as she was diagnosed she began chemo almost immediately.. hoping the tumors in her liver and pancreas would shrink and give her some extra time... I talked to my cousins husband the other day and they mutually agreed as a couple 3 months of Chemo just wasn't working she was sick all the time her body was wracked with pain She wanted to have some quality of time left, Dave said for 4 months she was happy they traveled around visiting her kids and grandchildren meeting up with friends, saying her goodbyes. In Dec there was such a sudden change, she was suddenly severely jaundice at Christmas she could barely eat, she was utilizing a pain pump as the pain was progressively worse.. When her nurse came one day she it was time for Hospice , there was an opening she went, she was happy seeing family still able to walk One morning a couple weeks ago she was blind, she became agitated she couldn't walk..Her body was shutting down.... On Sunday she was asleep and she just stopped breathing family was there at her last breath Her end was peaceful I think most people would rather have the quality of life as opposed to being druged up sick and dying sicker.. If a Dr came to me and said lets pump you full of poison it might extend your life a little longer but you'll feel like crap.. i'd rather not and i won't.. Edited by Alli, Feb 16 2017, 12:08 PM.
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| angora | Feb 16 2017, 02:15 PM Post #34 |
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WWS Book Club Coordinator
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Alli, so sorry you lost your cousin. I know how much that can hurt - someone we shared a part of our childhood with - things we did together and secrets we shared. Those things are only for one now when they used to be for the two of you. I'm glad she's escaped her pain and is at peace. |
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| yaya | Feb 17 2017, 02:20 AM Post #35 |
Small Star Member
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I am so sorry for your loss Alli. |
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| Trotsky | Feb 17 2017, 02:21 AM Post #36 |
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Big City Boy
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My feelings, too. It would be different if they could say, without laughing, that this miserable, painful, disfiguring chemotherapy treatment has been shown to be 40% CURATIVE by the XYZ study...or some such number. But they cannot and "We use chemotherapy because that's just what we DO" is just not good enough. Personal experience with this kind of thinking. BOb had a rash on his face that I judged to be fungal in nature (I was proved to be right.) He went to a dermatologist who improperly diagnosed Rosacea, big downer because it is disfiguring. We asked the doctor "Is it curable?" His response, that I will never forget: "No it is not BUT WE HAVE LOTS OF TREATMENTS FOR IT." I treated and CURED Bob. Edited by Trotsky, Feb 17 2017, 02:34 AM.
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| Durgan | Feb 17 2017, 02:32 AM Post #37 |
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Veteran Member
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With cancer you know you are in deep shit when you are put on Chemo and Tamoxifen. All the money and effort put into this disease and results are about the same as they were 50 years ago. |
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| Trotsky | Feb 17 2017, 02:36 AM Post #38 |
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Big City Boy
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Exactly, same as with back surgery. Treatment in 1960 was as effective for both, which is to say not very. |
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| David | Feb 17 2017, 02:38 AM Post #39 |
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Not really Durgan Among men and women of all major racial and ethnic groups, death rates continued to decline for all cancers combined and for most cancer sites; the overall cancer death rate (for both sexes combined) decreased by 1.5% per year from 2003 to 2012. Overall, incidence rates decreased among men and remained stable among women from 2003 to 2012. Among both men and women, deaths from liver cancer increased at the highest rate of all cancer sites, and liver cancer incidence rates increased sharply, second only to thyroid cancer. Men had more than twice the incidence rate of liver cancer than women, and rates increased with age for both sexes. Among non-Hispanic (NH) white, NH black, and Hispanic men and women, liver cancer incidence rates were higher for persons born after the 1938 to 1947 birth cohort. In contrast, there was a minimal birth cohort effect for NH Asian and Pacific Islanders (APIs). NH black men and Hispanic men had the lowest median age at death (60 and 62 years, respectively) and the highest average person-years of life lost per death (21 and 20 years, respectively) from liver cancer. HCV and liver cancer-associated death rates were highest among decedents who were born during 1945 through 1965. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.29936/full |
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| Durgan | Feb 17 2017, 02:51 AM Post #40 |
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Veteran Member
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the overall cancer death rate (for both sexes combined) decreased by 1.5% per year from 2003 to 2012. This is insignificant. |
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| David | Feb 17 2017, 02:54 AM Post #41 |
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I don't think a decrease of 1.5 % per year overall is insignificant at all. |
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| Trotsky | Feb 17 2017, 03:05 AM Post #42 |
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Big City Boy
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Incidence of cancer is increasing, I don't think anyone disputes that. Claimed lowering death rates is what the cancer industry is touting. But survival is measured rather weirdly: as 5-year survival. This is both arbitrary and deceptive. By this standard, Pat's dear daughter Kim was counted as cured of the cancer she battled 5 years ago. Many cancers recur after the 5 year period from diagnosis but are not counted as treatment failures as perhaps they SHOULD be. 5-year survival |
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| David | Feb 17 2017, 03:14 AM Post #43 |
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Yes, incidence is increasing. I've never been satisfied with the whole 5-year survival rate thing. It's based on information gathered on thousands of people with a specific cancer and includes people of all ages and health conditions who have been diagnosed with a certain cancer, including those diagnosed very early and those diagnosed very late. I've always thought it should be more specific to the stage it was discovered and level of treatment. |
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| blizzard | Feb 17 2017, 04:08 AM Post #44 |
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Gold Star Member
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Durgan, the 1.5% would most likely disagree with you. Just yesterday I reminded my daughter I share a home with what I expect if I should ever be in the position of not having what I consider quality of life. |
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| Durgan | Feb 17 2017, 04:41 AM Post #45 |
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Veteran Member
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Unfortunately 1.5% on a paper is equivalent to ignoring a dot on a graph to make the curve continuous. Insignificant. Anyway my point is for the effort and workers in the cancer field they are not producing adequate results. It is time for a more concentrated effort. IMO. A new look if you like. |
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