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Evolving multi-faith in a secular state
Topic Started: Jan 7 2007, 12:12 PM (690 Views)
elkouri
Unregistered

Kahu
Jan 7 2007, 10:43 PM
elkouri
Jan 8 2007, 04:40 AM
.........
but I wish you would put it on your own words.
To me that would be so much more exciting.

Those long drawn out articles can't be half as interesting as
your interpretation of them are.

Elkouri

I'm not a theologian Elkouri, as is the writer, Ian Harris, or some other members of this forum.

DEAR kahu
i didnt mean to hurt your feelings.
i have told others to tell it to me like its from their words.
I seem to absorb it better.
its ok,
just a stupid suggestion.
sorry


LOVE
elk

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elkouri
Unregistered

I FIND that most of us in here are
live and let live people.
and we are tolerant.

THATS why i enjoy it here.
ELK
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Kahu
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elkouri
Jan 8 2007, 11:51 AM

DEAR kahu
i didnt mean to hurt  your feelings.
i have told others to tell it to me like its from their words.
I seem to absorb  it better.
its ok,
just a stupid suggestion.
sorry

LOVE
elk

Don't worry, you haven't, but thanks for your concern :):
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elkouri
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(((((((((kahu))))))))) Smiling!
elk
Orchid,
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Kahu
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If Aotearoa-New Zealand still had the Imperial Honours system then Lloyd Geering would be Sir Lloyd, however Lloyd Geering has been honoured with our highest civil recognition. Only twenty living recipients at any one time. Now that aside, it occurs to me that many overseas readers still may not have heard of him. This is Worldwide Seniors after all. He is one of the very few people who have had their faith tested by having to endure a trial for heresy! Yes, that's true! He was tried by the Presbyterian Church of New Zealand as being a heretic! Basically for saying publicly what everyone in their own homes would be saying. He has made a tremendous difference in the way in which we think, and view each other and the outside world.

BUILDING A RESPONSIBLE SOCIETY
A lecture delivered by Lloyd Geering at St. Andrews-on-the-Terrace Wellington,on June 30, 1998, as the fourth in a series on the same topic.

In this last lecture of the series on "Building a Responsible Society" I shall not repeat such important things said by the previous speakers, with which I agree. There is no need for me rehearse the particular aspects of current Government policy which adversely affect society, for that was well done by Jonathan Boston last week. That leaves me free in this concluding lecture to offer a simple and more general analysis of the topic in this way.

First I shall discuss at some length the nature of human society. This is an aspect which in my view has not yet been sufficiently covered. Then I shall sketch the nature of responsibility and why it is the key to what constitutes a society in good heart. Finally I shall outline what I think we can all do to promote the growth of the responsible society.

What do we understand by the term society? One reason why people come to different conclusions about how to build a responsible society is that they set out from different understandings of what society is, as Jonathan Boston noted. What is even worse, they may even set out with no understanding of society at all. There is no clearer illustration of this than the now much quoted comment of Margaret Thatcher when she said, "There's no such thing as society". That tells us a great deal about the political and economic ideology which has been called Thatcherism or the New Right. Thatcherism is based on the current popular philosophy of individualism. It acknowledges the existence only of human individuals, each with their own interests, rights and responsibilities; it does not attribute any importance or even existence to society.

Many of our current human and social problems can be traced back to the prevalence of this philosophy of individualism and its neglect of the importance of society. If politicians and analysts spent as much time and energy attempting to understand the nature of human society as they do to trying to understand the economy, our communal life today could be very much better.

The failure to take society seriously has already been reflected in this series of lectures. Mrs Shipley did not even bother with a definition until she was asked for one by a questioner after her lecture had concluded. She then said she assumed that we all have some idea of what we mean by the term, and proceeded to give an off-the-cuff definition of society as "a group of people who have common interests and who have rights within it and responsibilities to it". She did somewhat better than Mrs Thatcher and many would not do as well as her on the spur of the moment. But that definition of society, I suggest, is not at all adequate. It could apply just as readily to an audience in the Michael Fowler Centre who have gathered to hear a symphony concert. They have a common interest. They have a right to seat because they have paid for it and they have the responsibility not to make noises which would interfere with the others rights to listen. But that does not make the audience into a society.

Helen Clark did somewhat better. She not only offered a definition at the outset but went much further that Jenny Shipley. She defined society as a community whose members have duties to one another. She went on to emphasise that society is a whole entity which is more than the sum of its parts.

Building a tolerant society

A few points of information.......Jenny Shipley was the first woman Prime Minister of NZ (unelected) of the National Party. Helen Clark is the present Prime Minister of the Labour Party, now in their second term, and looking good for the third term.

Geering is a controversial commentator on theological issues and considers Christian and Muslim fundamentalism to be a social evil.

In 1967 Professor Geering gained a high profile when the Presbyterian Church charged him with heresy for his radical beliefs. During his "trial" he claimed that the remains of Jesus lay somewhere in Palestine, and that the resurrection had been wrongfully interpreted by churches as a resuscitation of the body of Jesus. He also rejects the notion that God is a supernatural being who created and continues to look over the world.

He is a member of The Jesus Seminar and a participant in the program Living the Questions, an alternative to the Evangelical Alpha course.

He was honored in 1988 as a Commander of the Order of the British Empire and in 2001 as Principal Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit. In the 2007 New Year Honours List he was made a Member of the Order of New Zealand.

Wikipedia entry Lloyd Geering
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Geering is a controversial commentator on theological issues and considers Christian and Muslim fundamentalism to be a social evil.

This piqued my interest enough to do a search. Thanks to your link I will save a step.
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Kahu
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The Religious Atheist

Lloyd Geering: Secular trend a part of church evolution
Tuesday July 26, 2005

When we survey the whole cultural history of humankind we find we have to define religion in much broader terms to do justice to the great variety of forms it has taken.
My preferred definition of religion is that of Italian scholar, Carlo Della Casa: "Religion is a total mode of the interpreting and living of life."
In this new secular age, religion is manifesting itself in a much more humanistic and naturalistic way than in the past.
We are coming to value what it is that all humans have in common, irrespective of class, race, religion, gender, or age. We are developing a growing concern for human rights. We have come to see that what used to be regarded as the divine attributes are actually human value judgments, expressing what our forbears found to be of ultimate concern to them.
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New Zealanders generally, by their passion to combat apartheid and racism, to condemn war and violence, to promote tolerance of diversity ... manifest in these and other ways a genuine religious zeal. Insofar as New Zealand has been called the most secular country in the world, then we may well be in the vanguard of the new secular phase of religion, just as we were in the forefront in giving the franchise to women.

The most widespread religion in New Zealand today is what I have called elsewhere "religion without God", and which our leading citizens often refer to as "Christian values".* This is an edited versions of Lloyd Geering's Hocken lecture given in Dunedin this month.

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Kahu
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A podcast Nov 26/06 with Lloyd Geering and Marilyn Garing is available from Radio NZ

Podcast Link with RNZ
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VickiNC
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...Carlo Della Casa: "Religion is a total mode of the interpreting and living of life."

...The churches must stop treating the secular world as an enemy to be fought and conquered and welcome it as the new form of the Christian tradition out of which it has come.

...The most widespread religion in New Zealand today is what I have called elsewhere "religion without God", and which our leading citizens often refer to as "Christian values".


What an interesting way to start my day. Thanks Kahu. Going to watch the podcast now.
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Kahu
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Sorry, I should have said, an audio podcast Vicki.
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