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Slowdown Cause
Topic Started: Jun 21 2008, 06:35 AM (168 Views)
Trotsky
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Big City Boy
I remember back in the "old" days of computing that an axiom was you needed to keep a hard drive with at least 25% free available memory.

With newer HUGE hard drives is it still an axiom?

My problem is I have a 20 Gig drive (small these days, I know) and I have it partitioned into C: and D:. Alas C:, the active parttion has only 18% free space...or slightly less than 2 gigs free.

Would you judge this a likely source of slowdown?
(I'm still trying to find out why Netflix drags like two 90 year olds trying to have sex!)

My D: drive is 90% free so a repartition and resizing could help a lot...IF I was sure it was worth the aggravation of 2 Reformats.

Would dropping in a second hard drive be much aggravation?
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Deleted User
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Hi Trotsky. My old computer originally had 20GB of hard drive. I added a secondary hard drive of 100GB. I use the 20GB part for all my programs and the 100GB for storage of my files, music, etc. This computer is 7 years old and breezes right along on high speed internet. This old computer was reformatted only once about 5 years ago when I switched from Win98 to WinXP and did a clean instal. Adding another hard drive is not expensive as they have come down in price dramatically. Right now there are great sales on at NCIX who ship anywhere in Canada. check out the site from the link provided below.

http://www.ncix.com/promo/promosale.php?webid=hot2008 - NCIX built my computer and I have ordered often from them online - they can be trusted. No, I do not own shares in the company. :lol: They have a policy if you can find a component cheaper elsewhere, they will match the price.

From what you say, my guess is that your computer is bogged down and partitioning, in my opinion, reduces your programs area thus I believe is where you are being slowed down. Newer programs installed now require a lot more space and you have limited that area via partitioning.

My new computer has 350GB of storage and I was advised by the computer people who custom built my computer not to partition it. I purchased a 100GB Maxtor external drive which I use to back up my system in the event of a crash.

Regular maintenance of a computer is a must. When is the last time you defragmented your computer?
Do you instal and unistal programs frequently - if so, then this will clutter your registry which also requires cleaning & will speed up performance.

Download CCleaner from this site: http://www.filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/ - it is easy and safe to use and do a good clean up of your computer. I think you will find that after having done this your computer will run faster.

Do a good deep anti-spyware scan. Use Ad-aware SE or Spybot S&D. another good one is A-Squared Free. Spyware/malware are notorious for slowing down a computer. I run all my scanners daily while I do something else around the house.

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Delphi51
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I doubt if 18% free is causing a slowdown. It does make it necessary to defrag more often - maybe monthly. You could probably increase the free space to 25% by moving something to the other partition temporarily to see if it makes a difference. Any data and many programs can be moved permanently and most programs can be uninstalled and then installed on the other partition. Partitioning software can now adjust the size of partitions without any reformatting. See the free program at http://partitionlogic.org.uk/. And there are others. I would get rid of the second partition and expand the C partition to full size. But keep the Windows restore partition.

It doesn't sound like you need another drive when you have lots of free space on the 2nd partition. The cost of a new drive - perhaps $150 - is a long way toward a new computer - perhaps $300.

The usual cause of slowdown is stuff running all the time. Many, many programs are so rude as to run even when you are not using them on the theory that they are so wonderful you will want them sometime in the next second. The only way I know of to track this stuff down is to hit ctrl+alt+delete and look at the tasks. Look every one of them up (just use Google) and see what they are. You will find programs that are watching to see if an update for other programs is available, perhaps some that are waiting for you to scan something or use some weird printing feature or to read photos from your camera. You can stop them from running in task manager and see if it makes a difference. Permanently stopping them can be done by uninstalling, setting options in programs, using control panel - administrative tools - computer management - services. Also right click on the start button and choose "open all users", programs, startup. There shouldn't be anything in there except desktop.ini. Also choose "open" [current user] and do the same check. If you haven't caught a virus in the last year, uninstall your virus checker on the theory that it probably won't find one this year, either. Instead run an online virus checker once a year.

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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
Thanks for the tips Delphi...all good.

I DEFRAG every time I add or delete a program or else every month but I have never run a Registry cleaner so I'll give your recommendation a try.

My old plan to use the 10 gig partition for the active drive and 10 gigs for other programs (non-Microsoft stuff) and data and pictures for the other 10 gigs started off as a good one but MANY programs automatically install themselves on the C: drive without allowing for my choice of drives in the matter, and thus C: got more and more full.

Hard drives have fallen a LOT since you last checked: Tiger Direct sells 3 different 150 gig drives (Maxtor, Seagate and Western Digital) for $49.95 each so it is becoming a rather cheap upgrade.

I've pulled out the galumphing Norton Suite (which was on the D: drive) and it helps a little...that suite has kept auutomatic checking on spyware, scumwware, spam, phishing, firewall, signatures, etc., etc., etc., in addition to Viruses. So the GOOD part was everything was done automatically but the BAD part is it was all done on a minute by minute basis.

Today I am going to try to refresh my memory about how swap files and virtual memory work...I USED to know and always had a small partition that did ONLY that, but when I put in XP (also with a clean install) I messed up my partioning and wound up without my Swap drive.
My current thinking is that if Windows is creating Virtual Memory out of the little space left on the C: Drive, it could be regularly coming up short.

Do you think if I put in an additional hard drive, a 150 gig SATA, probably Seagate, there is any chance of running into trouble? Or is it just pop in attach a cable and Reformat like usual?
Are there old motherboard limits (mine is a Dell circa 2001) on hard drive size or is it just the Windows version I need to be concerned with (newish XP SP-2.)

(My particular sticky-wicket these days is a relentlessly slow NETFLIX but since my queue is over 400 films perhaps that alone is my big bugaboo.)

What I'm going to do with my 8 months remaining on my SYmantec (Norton) subscription, I'm not sure...but I KNOW I won't be using the 2009 Suite when it comes out, it is just too damn intrusive.
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
I've been musing over your statement about the cost of upgrades vs. the cost of a new computer. Good food for thought.

Yes, the cost of a new hard drive won't be much but then I have to face my mobo that tops out at 520 RAM capability and who wants to replace a motherboard? Then I must consider my old gargantuan CRT monitor that is showing burn-in and THEN I must realize that I am still using USB 1.0 AND I have only 2 outputs and a cheesy unpowered 4 way USB splitter. And THEN, my old scanner is poorly supported by Win XP and Win XP won't be forever AND I have no DVD player or writer. And then my CD-writing program, Roxio, won't work with XP. And then, and then, and then.
THe list goes on so perhaps starting upgrades of any kind won't be wise.

So maybe spending even the first DIME isn't cost efffective. Eventually all I'd be saving after all the upgrades is the computer CASE and the power supply (until it FAILS that is!) signs081 (Oh, I have a nice ergonomic keyboard...but it's USB ports are wonky...keeps reading bad connections when there are NONE! harp 06 !)

Let's see...oh, yeah I have 2 good printers that I hope to keep FOREVER (one is almost 25 years old already.)

Edited by Trotsky, Jun 25 2008, 02:50 AM.
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Bitsy
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I purchased an external hard drive which allowed me to postpone a new computer purchase for several months, freed up over 40% of my disk space, made the ease of transferring data to said new computer a breeze. I use it for all my pictures , videos and music as well as a place to store my backups.


Like you, Trotsky, I have had nothing but problelms with Norton 2007 and vowed I would never use another one of their products . I have Windows LiveOne Care on my new computer and to date, I am very pleased with it.
Edited by Bitsy, Jun 25 2008, 12:43 PM.
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Delphi51
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It may make sense to add a new $50 hard drive if you are short of space, but I think you said you had lots of space on the second partition. Your motherboard will not support the SATA drives they sell now - you will need to get an IDE or EIDE drive which will not work on your next computer. If you get the model number off the board, it is easy to look up what it supports. I don't think you will have any trouble with drives under 500 GB. Bitsy's suggestion of an external USB drive makes a lot of sense - you can take it with you to your next computer.

It certainly is not worth upgrading any other part of your old computer.
In fact, it is likely you could find a better one being given away somewhere. Schools here are tossing 1 GHz computers with 40 GB drives now.
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
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Your motherboard will not support the SATA drives they sell now - you will need to get an IDE or EIDE drive which will not work on your next computer


Delphi,
That brings up another thought that has been baning around in the back of my head. I pulled out the original invoice and it says that I have a 20.4 GB Ultra ATA Hard Drive @7200RPM. Is THAT indicative that my MOBO can support a SATA drive rather than EIDE or IDE?

(I appreciate your help. 024 )


edit:
OY, I'm getting a headache wading through SATA1, SATA2, PATA, SATA controllers...and trying to find out my motherboard without taking the case apart...which involves heavy furniture moving. 102 Oh well, everything I learn is one thing I didn't know yesterday! 035

Quote:
 
Ultra ATA hard drives have a Parallel ATA or PATA interface. Parallel ATA hard drives use a 40-pin data cable and are limited to 133 MB/sec. Serial ATA or SATA hard drives, the evolutionary replacement to Parallel ATA hard drives, have a serial interface. Serial ATA hard drives use a small 7-pin data cable and are available up to 300 MB/sec.

So that looks like I will have a cable issue for sure and probably need a new PCI controller...so this is not looking like a good idea...maybe I can find a cheap UltraATA in a larger size.


Okay,
Back to the TIGER DIRECT catalogue...they have another pile called PATA/IDE Hard Drives (all at 100MB/s transfer rate) and they've got the Hitachi and Seagate 160 GB for $59.95. Do you think I can be reasonably sure that one of these would work on my 2001 vintage MOBO.

(When I said that I had a lot of free space on my second partition, that was only realtive to the FIRST partition...and if I go on some picture taking sprees, that data drive could get fullis hairly fast. I figure that as long as I am goin to FDISC, and FORMAT, and reload programs for a week I might as well take the opportunity to install a bigger drive.)

Another question:
How can I easily tell which programs are using the most space on the drive? I have a hunch that I have one galumphing PIG on there (the Norton is gone.) Does XP grow like Topsy the longer it's in?

I REALLY appreciate your time.
Edited by Trotsky, Jun 29 2008, 01:16 AM.
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Delphi51
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PATA IDE makes it clear that you have the right one. For years all drives fit all computers because that parallel ATA interface was standard. It will work for you.

Ah, if you are going to put it in as your main drive, you will get an increase in speed, too. The newer and bigger drives are much faster than the old ones. Don't format the old drive. Just install windows on the new drive. And all your programs. Put the old drive in as a secondary drive so you can copy your data to the new one. After a few months when you are sure you have everything off it, then you can format it and use it for backups. Stop using it for main data because drives are not nearly as reliable after they are more than 5 years old. There you have another good reason for buying a new drive.

The easiest way to see what is occupying what space on your drive is to use the free utility called TreeSize. It is a tiny, perfect program. You just right click on any folder or your C drive in My Computer, choose "treesize" and it provides a list of all the folders and the size of their contents (including subfolders). You can navigate into subfolders to get the details. http://www.download.com/TreeSize-Free/3000-2248_4-10139400.html
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
Delphi,

I found TreeSize in my hard drive research. I opted to run it from the web instead of install it and it hung up. When my head clears (murder hangover) I'll downoad the program, which usually works more reliably.

Here's something I did: I went into MyComputer Properties and shrank the Paging File (new name for old Virtual Memory) and lo and behold I got several hundred Mb freed up, so then I took it one step further and shrank it to ZERO but put in a 500Mb paging file into the D: drive instead. This gave me over a GIG more free space extra on the C: I also went into MyComputer>System properties>Advanced>Performance and chose "adjust for best performance" instead of "adjust for best appearance."
Things are moving a lot faster now and my C: drive is 25% free.

It's been so long since I have fiddled with the puter, it was almost FUN...but I had to relearn SO much that I once knew.

And for a Grand Finale, I went to my Netflix queue and copied 300 movies to a couple storage files so Netflix editing SHOULD move a lot faster with "only" 150 movies to load and juggle.

I cannot decide whether to put Norton back in...into the D: Drive of course.

(When I get my new drive I'll be quizzing you about the Master-Slave nonsense! harp 06 )


Bitsy,
Do you have that external drive hooked up via USB 1 or 2, or Fire-Wire, or Ethernet?
Edited by Trotsky, Jun 30 2008, 03:14 AM.
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Delphi51
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Good show, Trotsky!
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Bitsy
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Trotsky
Jun 30 2008, 03:01 AM
Do you have that external drive hooked up via USB 1 or 2, or Fire-Wire, or Ethernet?
Presently it is connected to one of USB ports. I don't know if my upgrad to Verizon's FIOS will require any changes in my current set-up.
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
The reason that I asked, bitsy, is that an external drive might circumvent any need to limit the type of drive because of motherboard and internal cabling connections. Thus I would think tha as long as it's connected via USB one could use any drive, SATA, PATA or IDE. I THINK!

I doubt that your upgrade to FIOS (envy, envy) will have any bearing on the way your system is set up other than to have a DIFFERENT box between phone line and computer's ethernet input. (I assume you have cable or DSL now.)
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