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| Laminate flooring dispute | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 19 2012, 08:37 PM (1,001 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Apr 19 2012, 08:37 PM Post #1 |
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Deleted User
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2 yrs. ago I had laminate flooring installed in my living/dining/den area. It was not long afterwards that I noticed the floors were "peaking" badly in the den and starting in the living/dining. Also at times there was squeaking near the doorway to the bedroom. why would a floating floor squeak from time to time? The flooring I purchased was very expensive and not a cheap grade. The floor also chipped in my office Under my desk where I place my feet. Manufacturer or my flooring is Torley's and the store where I made the purchase and installation is Jordans. I have been fighting with Torley's & Jordans for a year now to have the flooring replaced. Torley's give a lifetime warranty. Not so, they dragged their feet for months, replaced a few boards which peaked again and tried to say I put water on the floor or their is water coming from somewhere. They refused to stand behind their warranty so Jordans foot the bill. The floor is "peaking" again & they came out and said it was because of my office chair. Helloooo!!! My friend has her office chair on their laminate floor and it is not "peaking" so I say that is a lame excuse on the part of Jordans & Torley's. I spent hours googling and searching for answers and it all comes back to improper installation. However, since Jordans cannot locate their installer or even have a record of who it was, they claim it is how I clean the floor that is damaging it. I only use Torley's cleaner [expensive like gold] according to instructions. Jordan's deny the floor was improperly installed. I produced copies of my research and in each instance it came back as poor installation. A rep from Torley's and Jordans Manager were at my home a couple of weeks ago and I have not heard back since. I did tell them that I was not going away by being ignored and told them I want the floor issue settled soon. Just how long does it take them to find a solution as it's been ongoing for a year now. I will give them until the end of this month and feel it is time to send a legal letter to them to resolve this issue immediately. Laminate flooring issues here: - http://www.laminatefloorings.net/lm_issues.htm Your thoughts on this situation? |
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| Darcie | Apr 20 2012, 12:26 AM Post #2 |
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Skeptic
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Ten years ago my sil installed a laminated floor in my kitchen. It started to peak even though there was no water used to wash it. We had an expert from the manufacturer come in. He told us it was because there was not enough space left for expansion and contraction at the walls. Sure enough, when the baseboards were removed the floor had been put in right against the walls and had miniscule spacing. The whole thing had to be taken out and reintalled. Since then there hasn't been a problem. Have no idea if this is the problem with yours but have you checked to see how close to the wall the floor is? |
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| Kahu | Apr 20 2012, 10:17 AM Post #3 |
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Do you have any organisation or legislation like our Consumer Guarantees Act? I've had a cursory look and what I've seen seems mainly focussed on financial service problems, and being in 'the trade' so to speak you'd certainly have knowledge of them. The Consumer Guarantees Act is a cornerstone piece of legislation. Its role is to protect consumers. Under the Act, your consumer rights are expressed as a series of "guarantees" that a seller automatically makes to you when you buy any goods or services ordinarily purchased for personal use. In this guide, we explain what those rights are, and what to do if you think your rights have been breached. Source Link |
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| campy | Apr 20 2012, 11:41 AM Post #4 |
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Handyman Extraordinaire
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If they came and fixed it an it did the same thing then no matter what you do it will buckle again. The only reason for a wood floor to buckle is because it can't expand when moisture is present. Wood sort of breathes. Shrinks when the atmosphere is dry and expands when it is moist. That's why they accused you of using water. There is an installation problem somewhere along the line and so you should check at the baseboards to see if there is enough room for expansion as someone else suggested. Now if the baseboard has a molding applied over the floor instead of in front of it, then the installation won't allow the floor to expand. The molding (quarter round) will stop it from moving. That's my guess as to what happened. If there is no molding then there has to be enough room to expand between the floor and the baseboard on the wall. I think those floors were designed to be installed in places where there is no baseboard at all. The other thing that might be a problem is the underlay not letting the wood move. Edited by campy, Apr 20 2012, 11:42 AM.
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| Trotsky | Apr 20 2012, 02:36 PM Post #5 |
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Big City Boy
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Are there lots of "peaks" or one big mountain? Friends came home after a weekend of an air conditioner leaking onto a parquet floor (wood over concrete) and the floor was 3 feet high in the middle of the room. It soon collapsed like a house of 6 x 6 cards. Until I read you post, toodles, I was thinking of installing laminate or hardwood in my apartment...I will rethink that option. Edited by Trotsky, Apr 20 2012, 02:40 PM.
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| Darcie | Apr 20 2012, 04:31 PM Post #6 |
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Skeptic
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Trotsky, my daughter has oak floors installed over 50 years ago that they had refinished before moving in when they bought the property. They look like new after 10 years. My laminate is the same after proper installation. If installed correctly you can't beat hardwood, if properly finished. It is even in their kitchen. |
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| wildie | Apr 20 2012, 05:14 PM Post #7 |
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Veteran Member
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I installed laminate floors through out this house, that I now live in. When I say, I installed, I mean that I did it all myself. I have installed flooring made in China, flooring made in Austria and flooring made in Canada. In all cases 3/8" space must be allowed all around the perimeter. Also, runs no longer than 6 meters are allowed. These rules were set out in the enclosed instructions that came with the flooring. These clearances must be adhered to for water lines that project through the floor, also. I followed the instructions that came with the flooring, inplicitly and after 5 years, I have experienced no problems, no matter who manufactured the floor. |
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| campy | Apr 20 2012, 07:23 PM Post #8 |
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Handyman Extraordinaire
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All of a sudden there is a love for hardwood or laminate floors. I remember the old hardwood floors. They became downright ugly after awhile because the finish in those days wasn't as hard as the new stuff like epoxy finishes. And you had to have them resurfaced every once in a while as well. They didn't buckle too much because they were thick. But they did get gaps which were impossible to eliminate. So the new trend was to cover the hardwood with carpet. Now when they take up the carpet they try to refinish the hardwood floors. In my old house which I sold they took out the carpet to install laminate. I winced when I heard that because that rug cost us a fortune. It was embossed and still looked good after a long time because we rarely used the living room. I just love the feel of a nice rug on bare feet as compared to laminates or wood floors. Also one of the contractors I know told me he hates installing laminates in a home where there are pets like big dogs because their nails scratch the floor if they are not trimmed. Also high heels with tacks are a no no. When installing wood floors they are supposed to bring in the wood and let it sit in the house for awhile to become acclimatized from where they might have been sitting in a warehouse. Edited by campy, Apr 20 2012, 07:27 PM.
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| Deleted User | Apr 20 2012, 07:44 PM Post #9 |
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Deleted User
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I think you hit the nail on the head. The baseboard was not removed and the wood was put up to the baseboard and a small trim [quarter round] over the floor. It is especially bad in my office/den. In the living/dining, the peaking is random but as time passes more show up. The boards replaced did not reach the baseboard because I do not recall them removing the quarter round nor baseboard. That probably explains why this problem has occurred again. The same installer installed the floor for my neighbor who had Engineered Wood flooring installed and he had to have the floor removed because the installer did not glue it down as it should have been. So this gives me reason to believe my flooring is improperly installed given that it was the same installer. I also read up that when installing laminate over concrete, one must first place down a vapour barrier and then put the sound proofing underlay. I did not see the installer putting down the vapour barrier during the installation. Our son installed his own laminate in the living/dining/kitchen/family room and they wash it with a steam cleaner and it is not peaking. They have a small dog who comes in with wet feet and runs around the house and there is no sign of any damage. He got laminate costing .99 cents a sq. ft. from Costco and installed it in his basement, and has never had a problem I believe Jordans store will have to foot the bill and if the flooring is removed and thrown away, I will opt for a Cork flooring replacement. Price tag is the same. A friend installed cork and they are very happy with it and have no issues. Cork now has some lovely patterns - am told it also floats, is soft, warm and sound proofing & great for people who have bad backs. I really do not want to lift anything as it may come back to haunt me but I may ask a flooring outfit in competition to Jordans to come out and remove the quarter round to see if the floor is butted up against the baseboard or if the required space is there for the floor to float. At least I will have an independent assessment so Torley's & Jordans cannot try to pass the blame on to me. I have had solid oak floors when we lived in Ottawa [had to hand wax them too] and engineered flooring in my last place and had no issues. Laminate is supposed to be tougher and easier to care but I am not finding that to be the case. I am afraid to even wipe up any dirt or user their pricey cleaner. I just vacuum it and keep my fingers crossed. I live in the semi-desert part of Canada ... however, the temperature in my condo is consistently the same - I have fans that automatically start up when the humidity goes up and air conditioning as well. I have not met anyone else where I live with this problem so they cannot blame it on room temperature conditions. Torleys do sell a quality flooring but they DO NOT stand behind their lifetime warranty. Jordans is a high end furniture and flooring/carpet store and hopefully they do the right thing to keep their good name & reputation in good standing. I removed expensive carpet because I am getting prepared for when hubby or I need to use a wheelchair - I am very close to using one now and have been looking at them at medical stores. |
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| campy | Apr 20 2012, 07:48 PM Post #10 |
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Handyman Extraordinaire
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Good Luck to you if you find a solution. A warranty is only as good as the people that issue it. |
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| goldengal | Apr 21 2012, 12:08 AM Post #11 |
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Mistress, House of Dogs
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As far as flooring and large dogs go, it has been our experience that laminate beats hardwood any day. At the lake my SIL installed dark oak hardwood, and it is scratched and gouged all over from having two 100+ dogs - along with smaller ones. Our next door neighbour installed laminate, have a 110 lb. dog and no marks at all. Take care, Pat |
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| Greyhoundlady | Apr 21 2012, 12:57 AM Post #12 |
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Super Poster
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I love my laminate floors in family room, kitchen and front hall. They get a lot or wear and tare as we do not take of shoes in house. Also shadow brings in a lot of dirt. I seep every day and use vinegar and water spray on a mop to clean. We also have an office chair by my hubby's computer and another one by my computer and no problem. My hubby installed mine so I guess he did a good job. |
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| campy | Apr 21 2012, 08:25 PM Post #13 |
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Handyman Extraordinaire
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There are different grades of laminates. If they are predominantly plastic then the expansion and contraction factor would be minimal. It's only the ones that have some organic composition like wood chips that would be subject to humidity and dryness. In fact I personally think if I was going to use laminates I would pick the cheaper varieties which are plastic primarily. The real hardwood floors have a super finish now. I think it's an expoxy which is really hard. But the wood underneath is just like the old days. They are quite thick however and not subject to buckling but the joints would be subject to opening but now they use a nailing gun to nail them to the subfloor. It's the floating ones that have a problem. Edited by campy, Apr 21 2012, 08:27 PM.
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| Deleted User | Apr 22 2012, 09:39 AM Post #14 |
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Deleted User
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Laminate is horrid stuff; would never have it in my own house. In 2008 I lived for 8 months in a condo that had very nice laminate floors almost throughout, including the kitchen area (open plan). First thing I discovered, it is difficult to clean so that it continues to look nice and shiny. After considerable internet research, I found a useful suggestion for cleaning, along with the information that lots of people have problems with laminate floors. Next, I discovered that they mark very easily; and I did not have a big dog, just a small kitten. The kitchen floor got dints any time you dropped even a spoon. |
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| Darcie | Apr 22 2012, 09:53 AM Post #15 |
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Skeptic
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I wonder what type of laminate it was. There are cheap grades of the stuff but I am impressed with the one in my Montreal kitchen as after being properly reinstalled it is still new looking after 10 years. Even hot roasting pans have been dropped on it and there have been all sort of pets visiting us with no problems. We picked a medium priced grade. It is just like wood floors, some are soft woods which are useless as flooring and then there are woods such as oak, maple and elm (my favourite for looks). |
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