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| Battery Experts needed | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 24 2015, 03:12 AM (1,818 Views) | |
| campy | Nov 27 2016, 12:02 PM Post #61 |
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Handyman Extraordinaire
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Impossible to get a replacement then. It's a one piece unit. You can't access it. It's sealed. |
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| wildie | Nov 28 2016, 03:16 PM Post #62 |
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Veteran Member
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How about changing over to a LED indicator? |
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| Trotsky | Nov 29 2016, 02:42 AM Post #63 |
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Big City Boy
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cam,py, Test my hypothesis before destructive testing of your charger. Charge a non-dead battery for a few moments. See if your charger is operating correctly. To repeat my hypothesis: A completely dead battery can lose its polarity. A depolarized battery often cannot be charged and might cause the back and forth swings on your confused charger as it searches for plus and/or minus. Perhaps a simpler test might be with a voltmeter. Does your battery show anything near 12 volts? Edited by Trotsky, Nov 29 2016, 02:43 AM.
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| campy | Nov 29 2016, 03:31 AM Post #64 |
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Handyman Extraordinaire
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Trotsky. If I put a tester on it, it is outputting 12 volts. Since no battery is ever 'fully charged' after using it and they do lose a bit of charge just sitting there unused, when I put the charger on it, it charges the battery to full charge and disconnects automatically so not to overcharge. There's nothing wrong with it now that I can see. The analog needle shows the status of the battery while it is charging. This is a really old charger from the 50's. Because I was trying to charge a completely dead battery and the needle was jumping back and forth, I thought there was something wrong with it. |
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| Trotsky | Nov 29 2016, 03:48 AM Post #65 |
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Big City Boy
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I gave my charger away when we moved (recipient was THRILLED.) I KNOW I am going to regret it one day. campy, sounds like you are fine with the possible exception of the need for a replacement battery. You might find this video interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMPuzmhYCQc Edited by Trotsky, Nov 29 2016, 03:57 AM.
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| Delphi51 | Nov 29 2016, 05:40 AM Post #66 |
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Member title
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I am very surprised to hear a 1950's charger has the auto off feature. The old chargers I had just applied a more or less constant voltage of 13.5 to 14.5 volts, with current diminishing gradually as the battery charged and opposed the incoming current. It takes well over 8 hours to fully charge a battery that way. 12 volts will not charge the battery. It has to be at least 13.5 to make any significant charging. My fancy automatic charger uses 15.5 volts at cool temperatures. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery Edited by Delphi51, Nov 29 2016, 05:51 AM.
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| Trotsky | Nov 29 2016, 08:11 AM Post #67 |
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Big City Boy
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My 1970's oldie had no shut off. I just turned it off after an overnight. I supposed the "automatic shutoff" was the charging voltage equaling the battery voltage (which goes quite above 12 V transiently) and thus stopping current flow? Not sure, but my assumption.
So there is an auto-stop essentially built in when the voltages equate. Edited by Trotsky, Nov 29 2016, 08:15 AM.
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| campy | Nov 29 2016, 09:45 AM Post #68 |
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Handyman Extraordinaire
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Nope that battery was purchased new not too long ago. When it calfs I will replace it. Until then. Barroom, Barroom. :cold: |
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| campy | Nov 29 2016, 09:48 AM Post #69 |
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Handyman Extraordinaire
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Not true. 13.5 is your car alternator because of everything running in the background when the car is running At rest If you are charging at 12 volts it will take longer but it will still charge the battery I'm guessing here but I would think a 12 volt battery will still charge up with a charger outputting 6 volts. It will just take longer but it will still charge. Those fast chargers are only for impatient people. Have you never heard of a trickle charger? That's what we used in the good old days. I'm guessing here again but I think slow charging is better for the battery life than fast charging. Thanks for the link. I'm starting to think batteries and charging are a culture. The worst batteries in the world.? Cell phone batteries. They are almost always out of breath when you need them the most. I also had a tablet and was told those batteries could not be replaced which of course is nonsense. If you can get the exact replacement, just disconnect the old one and solder the new one in place. I had one sent from China. Total cost $3.50 including shipping. The Chinese have a deal with manufacturers and postage which makes them so competitive. Edited by campy, Nov 29 2016, 10:35 PM.
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| Trotsky | Nov 30 2016, 02:40 AM Post #70 |
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Big City Boy
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I shopped digital scales lately. Many advertise "Lifetime battery included." <I learned long ago that these products never referred to MY lifetime but rather THEIRS...learned the hard way with a lifetime gym membership...gym failed after about 18 months.> I am sure I could solder in a new lithium battery but I would rather not. I passed on every one of these scales until I found one that took 4 AAA cells and so far we are on a year with 2 weighings per day. Edited by Trotsky, Nov 30 2016, 02:42 AM.
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| wildie | Nov 30 2016, 04:19 AM Post #71 |
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Veteran Member
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Campy, wrong guess this time! To charge a battery the charger voltage always has to exceed the battery voltage. eg a trickle charger would be a smidgeon higher than the battery. Say half a volt! A quick charger could be perhaps 2 or 3 volts higher. Electron balance is much like water balance. For instance, if two containers are connected with a pipe at the bottom. If one of these is filled, water will seek to be level and the same thing applies to electrons. Once the supply of electrons has equalized no more electron flow will occur. So if you connect a 6 volt charger to a 12 volt battery. Electrons will flow from the battery and into the charger. Obviously the charger isn't capable of saving these electrons and it will behave in the same manner as a short circuit does when placed across the battery terminals. The battery will be drawn down until equilibrium occurs and the battery voltage equals six volts. |
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| Trotsky | Nov 30 2016, 04:35 AM Post #72 |
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Big City Boy
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Thus a 12 volt charger could theoretically start charging a completely dead battery but it would take something in excess of 12.6 volts to complete the job. Edited by Trotsky, Nov 30 2016, 04:36 AM.
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| Dialtone | Nov 30 2016, 04:44 AM Post #73 |
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Gold Star Member
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My 15 yr old charger, charges at about 13.5 V , and batteries will sit at this charge for a short while after being disconnected from the charger until the battery equalizes. A fully charged 12V battery (lead/acid) is about 12.7 V. You can't charge a battery with just 12V, it has to be higher, if you're reading just 12V with your digital meter, your battery is near the bottom. |
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| Delphi51 | Nov 30 2016, 05:39 AM Post #74 |
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Member title
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Yes, 12.0 volts a few hours after charging indicates approximately 50% charge . . . and the point where permanent damage to the battery begins. Many people have ruined their batteries using the voltage state of charge chart too soon after charging while that surface charge on the plates is making the voltage artificially high. Posted Image http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm I have some battery trickle chargers from eBay. They have the auto shutoff feature. They made nice gifts for farmers who have many batteries to maintain over the winter. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-12V-1300mA-Battery-Trickle-Charger-Auto-Car-Van-Motorcycle-Tender-Maintainer-/152063080211?hash=item2367aa7713:g:xEMAAOSw8aNXGEQD (These have a defect - the power cords crack in very cold temperatures. I replaced all the cords.) I made one myself out of an old AC adapter that outputs 15 volts DC with no load. Better for the impatient. Auto shutoff is not necessary since the battery surface charge builds up to 15 volts, stopping current from flowing. |
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| Trotsky | Nov 30 2016, 05:47 AM Post #75 |
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Big City Boy
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THat 15V capacitive charge is a nice built in safety measure. |
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