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Couldn't you just keep your knees together?
Topic Started: Nov 10 2015, 04:12 PM (987 Views)
Darcie
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Skeptic
Federal Court judge under review for berating sex assault complainant

Quote:
 
The Canadian Judicial Council is reviewing the conduct of a Federal Court judge who questioned the efforts of a sexual assault complainant to fend off her attacker.

The council announced Monday it will review the behaviour of Robin Camp during a 2014 case he adjudicated while serving as an Alberta Provincial Court judge. The case involved the alleged rape of a 19-year-old woman by a Calgary man, whom she accused of sexually assaulting her over a bathroom sink during a house party.

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The review comes after a complaint from four law professors at Dalhousie University and the University of Calgary who described Camp as "dismissive, if not contemptuous" toward sexual assault laws and the rules of evidence.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-judge-judical-review-robin-camp-1.3311574?cmp=rss&cid=news-digests-edmonton

This is unbelievable.
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Durgan
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It would sure be informative to hear all the evidence and the situation. Must have been some house party? Was the judge a female?

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heatseeker
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The judge is grovelling and has signed up for what amounts to sensitivity training.

Lord leapin Jesus. This is the sort of stuff one usually learns by, say, the end of kindergarten.

I wonder how he got appointed.
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Durgan
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Not sensitivity training. Political correct training. The event appears to be bullshit from where I sit.
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FuzzyO
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Which event Durgan? The one where the judge refused to apply current legal rules?
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Durgan
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The event of the sexual activity in the washroom in a private house at a people party is to what I refer. The type of sexual activity, which is surmised, is even awkward if not difficult with two willing participants.

The judge's comments certainly were insensitive in a public forum like a court, since such activity is generally not undertaken by most people except surreptitiously.Also we live in a society in Canada where sex is generally considered a private matter. The activity as slightly described certainly doesn't shock or affront my dignity.
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
Are we to go back to the standards that often applied throughout most of the 20th Century. If a woman said she was raped, the man was convicted, no questions asked?

The judge quizzed the woman and this high tribunal will determine if he was allowed to do so rather than just taking her word for what happened.
Edited by Trotsky, Nov 11 2015, 01:27 AM.
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FuzzyO
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I think you are missing the point. As long as both parties are willing they can have at it wherever they choose although under certain circumstances they run the risk of censure. This was a rape case. Where it occurred doesn't come into it. The judge suggesting that she could have prevented it by overpowering or resisting a male who bested her by over a 100 lbs. is the problem.
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
Quote:
 
This was a rape case. Where it occurred doesn't come into it.


Correct, this was rape case, but that does not necessarily mean it was a case of rape. That is what the judge was trying to find out.
Why no mention of how the defense was proceeding? Can we presume they were alleging consensual sex? Can we make any logical presumptions about a woman and a man entering a bathroom together? A woman must consent to sex but withholding consent AFTER the fact, perhaps when guilt sets in, occurs too often to be ignored.

If this woman's charge is upheld, the man's life will be destroyed worse than if he was found guilty of actually KILLING her. In this case, is it unreasonable for her to be subjected to some difficult questions before the man gets locked up and forever branded a sexual offender (and hence no work again, ever.)

I don't think we really have enough information to go on.

If in fact the woman is lying and the judge uncovers that lie through tough questioning, is the judge still guilty because he was insensitive to "the little lady."
Edited by Trotsky, Nov 11 2015, 01:44 AM.
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margrace
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Back to why women asked for it the old argument. Men just don't get it.
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
margrace
Nov 11 2015, 01:40 AM
Back to why women asked for it the old argument. Men just don't get it.
Perhaps because too many women lie about their being raped.
Bringing charges like this has too readily put the entire burden of proof on the man. It should be shared equally and in the courtroom the woman should not be treated any gentler than the guy is.

Is the jury finding totally irrelevant here:
Quote:
 
Alexander Scott Wagar was acquitted in the 2014 sexual assault case, but last month, Alberta's Court of Appeal ordered a new trial.


The jury heard ALL the evidence, unlike we who must deal with just a couple slanted newspaper snippets.

I guess Alberta has no protections from double jeopardy so the province will torture this guy all over again.

If some uber judges think this judge needs to be removed or even imprisoned, let them get rid of him, but not at the expense of some guy whom a jury of his peers found he had consentual sex and the complaining woman lied.
Edited by Trotsky, Nov 11 2015, 02:02 AM.
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FuzzyO
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I think double jeopardy has limited application; otherwise no cdecision would ever be overturned.
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Bitsy
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Trotsky
Nov 11 2015, 01:45 AM
margrace
Nov 11 2015, 01:40 AM
Back to why women asked for it the old argument. Men just don't get it.
Perhaps because too many women lie about their being raped.
Bringing charges like this has too readily put the entire burden of proof on the man. It should be shared equally and in the courtroom the woman should not be treated any gentler than the guy is.

Is the jury finding totally irrelevant here":
Quote:
 
Alexander Scott Wagar was acquitted in the 2014 sexual assault case, but last month, Alberta's Court of Appeal ordered a new trial.


The jury heard ALL the evidence, unlike we who must deal with just a couple slanted newspaper snippets.

I guess Alberta has no protections from double jeopardy so the province will torture this guy all over again.

If some uber judges think this judge needs to be removed or even imprisoned, let them get rid of him, but not at the expense of some guy whom a jury of his peers found he had consentual sex and the complaining woman lied.
Trotsky, I need to refresh my memory as I do not recall rape trials being slam dunks for the women, except if the accused was black.
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
The 72 signatories and 166 parties to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights recognise, under Article 14 (7):


No one shall be liable to be tried or punished again for an offence for which he has already been finally convicted or acquitted in accordance with the law and penal procedure of each country.
Edited by Trotsky, Nov 11 2015, 02:04 AM.
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FuzzyO
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http://law.ucalgary.ca/aggregator/sources/1?mini=calendar/2012/04/all

Quote:
 
The first disturbing aspect of Judge Camp’s reasons is with respect to his legal analysis. As Professor Koshan notes, Judge Camp suggested that the limits on questioning the complainant’s sexual history “hamstring the defence” and arose from “very, very incursive legislation” (Crown Factum, para. 73). Having made this comment, he then proceeded to allow cross-examination in this regard without complying with the requirements for a hearing under section 276(2) and section 276.1 of the Criminal Code.

Judge Camp also criticized the Canadian legal position that a judge ought not to consider whether a complainant reports the assault immediately. As described in the Crown’s Factum:

In the Crown’s preliminary submissions, the Trial Judge commented that the Complainant “abused the first opportunity to report” before conceding this was “no longer contemporarily relevant”. In the Crown’s final submissions, he commented that the recent complaint doctrine (defined as complaining to your family or someone in authority as soon as you can) was “followed by every civilized legal system in the world for thousands of years” and “had its reasons” although “[a]t the moment it’s not the law”. When the Crown submitted that the antiquated thinking had been set aside for a reason, he replied “I hope you don’t live too long, Ms. Mograbee” (Crown’s Factum, at para 58).

The Supreme Court of Canada has been clear (in R v DD, [2000] 2 SCR 275 at para 60-63) that adverse inferences as to credibility, premised on the mere fact that a complainant failed to ‘raise a hue and cry,’ constitute an error of law. Judge Camp’s comments suggest that he was aware of that rule, but skeptical as to its validity given its departure from the historical practices of “every civilized legal system.”

The Crown also details in its Factum Judge Camp’s troubling approach to the law of consent, in which he appeared to place the onus on the complainant to “make it clear that she’s not consenting” (Crown’s Factum, at para 97) and also to assess the fact of the complainant’s consent from the respondent’s point of view (which would be relevant to a defence of a mistaken belief in consent, but not to the existence of consent itself) (Crown’s factum at paras 92-99).

In its reasons, the Court of Appeal stated “we are satisfied that the trial judge’s comments throughout the proceedings and in his reasons gave rise to doubts about the trial judge’s understanding of the law governing sexual assaults” (Wagar, at para 4).
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