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Shame on Us.
Topic Started: Jan 7 2016, 03:29 AM (1,119 Views)
Darcie
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Skeptic
At least 2,250 veterans are homeless, according to groundbreaking analysis

Quote:
 
For what's believed to be the first time, the federal government has estimated how many of Canada's homeless are former soldiers — but the department that compiled the report warns the data is far from complete.

The March 2015 study by Employment and Social Development Canada estimates that 2,250 former soldiers use shelters on regular basis, about 2.7 per cent of the total homeless population that uses temporary lodging.

Justin Trudeau promises $300 million plan for veterans
Liberals pledge to re-open regional veterans affairs offices

The information in the report, released to The Canadian Press under the Access to Information Act, comes from a database that tracks 60 emergency shelters across the country and added veterans as an identifiable category in 2014.

"It's shocking in Canada that we would have any veteran who is homeless, but it is a sad reality," Gen. Jonathan Vance, the country's top military commander, said in an interview with The Canadian Press.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/2250-canadian-veterans-homeless-1.3390674?cmp=rss&cid=news-digests-canada-and-world-morning

What hypocrites we are, all that pretense of supporting veterans.

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Replies:
Dana
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WWS Hummingbird Guru & Wildlife photographer extrordinaire
lilal
Jan 9 2016, 06:39 AM
swing
Jan 9 2016, 06:19 AM
Dream on you guys there will be no proof

IMO this type of comment is totally unnecessary. Why the continual attacks? People are entitled to their opinions. The continual Conservative/Liberal jabs and attacks are so tiresome. J.T. is in power, we don't have to like it, but the majority ruled. Harper had his faults but he was an economist, and carried us through bad economic times. In the end both men have to be commended for giving their life to public service. We don't have to agree on either men's policies, but it is what it is, for another 4 years. Beating up on one another on this forum accomplishes nothing, just creates animosity, life it too short my friends.
Well said swing! Thank you for saying how I feel about the endless political sniping.
Seems to me that animosity arrives when people have no facts to back their opinions. No one is obliged to attend political discussions here . I think we know by now that no one's opinion was ever changed radically in any of these discussions but without facts the talk is empty, merely hot air.
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Delphi51
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Member title
Quote:
 
The March 2015 study by Employment and Social Development Canada estimates that 2,250 former soldiers use shelters on regular basis, about 2.7 per cent of the total homeless population that uses temporary lodging.

The gent on the CBC radio show this morning said that figure was arrived at by canvassing shelters but most vets rarely go to them. They like to stay away from people, especially cities because of the bad experiences in Cyprus, Afghanistan, etc.
Listen to it here: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-january-8-2015-1.3394962/thousands-of-veterans-in-canada-amongst-the-hidden-homeless-1.3395092
Edited by Delphi51, Jan 9 2016, 12:34 PM.
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friendshipgal
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Guess everyone wants their own Trudashians
Animosity arrives when people don't like what is presented if it doesn't fit their version of 'facts', just note where they originate from, and not the first time.

As for money on refugees vs. the homeless, it's a no brainer at refugees 1.2 billion over 6 years (and counting) Homeless people - 0. At least 0 if you don't count the cost of running shelters.
Refugees get a one time start up payment of 25K per family, something not given to homeless people or people wanting to come off welfare to make a start. Shelters are a temporary refuge which homeless people avoid if they can.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/19/cost-of-syrian-refugee-plan-pegged-at-12b-over-six-years.html[/quote]
Edited by friendshipgal, Jan 9 2016, 12:47 PM.
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Bitsy
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Veteran Member
friendshipgal
Jan 9 2016, 12:34 PM
As for money on refugees vs. the homeless, it's a no brainer at refugees 1.2 billion over 6 years (and counting) Homeless people - 0. At least 0 if you don't count the cost of running shelters.
There is a huge discrepancy in your comment and these two studies.

Quote:
 
The cost of homelessness to Canadians is estimated at $7 billion annually, according to the 2013 report The State of Homelessness in Canada. The estimate is based on the cost of reacting to homelessness instead of addressing the root causes of it and taking a proactive approach. Canada's reactionary solutions are expensive, typically involving a greater use of emergency services – law enforcement, courts and prisons, emergency healthcare, longer hospital stays, emergency shelters, etc.

http://lookoutsociety.ca/understanding-homelessness/cost-of-homelessness/the-real-cost-of-homelessness-in-canada
Quote:
 

Last year we came across an infographic about the cost to end homelessness in the United States based on a New York Times report from 2012. We wondered whether we could do something similar for Canada. We couldn’t because we didn’t have the numbers until this week when the State of Homelessness in Canada: 2014 was published. Based on work from real estate scholar Jane Londerville and economist Marion Steele, and published by the Canadian Observatory on Homelessness/Homeless Hub in conjunction with the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness this report costs out a solid path towards ending homelessness at $3.752 billion in 2015/2016 and about $44 billion over ten years.


http://www.homelesshub.ca/blog/ending-homelessness-cost


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wildie
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Veteran Member
Durgan
Jan 7 2016, 02:42 PM
Never in the history of Canada has such a generation of veterans done so much whining. The homeless vets were probably only housed properly when they joined the military, meaning they would be homeless anyway due to their walk of life. I might add booze induced mostly.
I agree about it being booze induced. I'm not a teatotaler but I cashed out of the military life out of concern for the alcohol culture.
I was sure in my own mind, that if I stayed with the military life, that alcoholism lay ahead. Although I have continued to imbibe, my consumption hasn't interfered with my ability to hold down a job.
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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
If there is ONE homeless person or ONE jobless person then the appropriate number of new immigrants to be imported should be ZERO until such time that the jobless and homes people have their problem solved.

You don't put out a fire by tossing gasoline on it. In the same vein you don't solve homelessness by bringing in people who need homes. Nor do you solve employment unavailability by bringing in hoards of people without jobs.
Edited by Trotsky, Jan 11 2016, 01:32 AM.
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campy
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Handyman Extraordinaire
Next year at this time we will still have the homeless no matter on how much money is spent on it.
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swing
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swing
I agree about it being booze induced. I'm not a teatotaler but I cashed out of the military life out of concern for the alcohol culture.

Could it be that the messes provided "cheap booze" plus the isolation from family and friends. It was a way of life, of entertainment. I speak only from a similar experience in a militaristic organization! The more isolated postings created more "alcohol abuse".

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Trotsky
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Big City Boy
wildie,
Is it possible that the fault was in the "militaristic organization" that spawned the drinking?
Might it be said that militarism breeds inhumanity?
It is, after all, a system that abhors independent thought and action, thus the perfect milieu that might cause a person to accept living on the street or in the trenches or foxholes or in dirty tunnels.

The first goal of basic training is to bust a "grunt's" ego to smithereens and put him back together as an empty shell with no will of his own to do anything but OBEY. Alcoholism is a likely consequence rather than a cause of this personality destruction.

In any case, congratulations on having the good sense to get out.
Edited by Trotsky, Jan 11 2016, 12:25 PM.
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heatseeker
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Veteran Member
It would be nice to see posts with links showing facts about spending on homeless people and refugees, rather than "you're always wrong" posts. This one is very interesting.

I'd like to see people posting links to bolster assertions on stuff like this. Not sure if it would reduce arguments, but it would be a lot more informative than much of what we are getting now. It is not a lot of work to do this.
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Darcie
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Skeptic
Former ombudsman ‘gob-smacked’ it took Ottawa five years to track homeless vets

Quote:
 
Pat Stogran, who was Canada’s first veterans ombudsman, says he tried unsuccessfully for years to get the former Conservative government to recognize that homelessness among ex-soldiers was an issue.

And he says he is “gob-smacked” that it took until 2014 for the federal government to begin tracking the issue through a national data base, especially since he began urging individual shelters in 2009 to start collecting data and asking people whether they’ve had any military service.

Stogran, who had an ongoing stormy relationship with the Harper government, says the issue of homelessness and the intractable attitude of both politicians and the veterans bureaucracy was – more than anything else – the cause of his falling out with the Tories.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/former-ombudsman-gob-smacked-it-took-ottawa-five-years-to-track-homeless-vets/article28100058/?click=sf_globefb

Just for information
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campy
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Handyman Extraordinaire
heatseeker
Jan 11 2016, 12:29 PM
It would be nice to see posts with links showing facts about spending on homeless people and refugees, rather than "you're always wrong" posts. This one is very interesting.

I'd like to see people posting links to bolster assertions on stuff like this. Not sure if it would reduce arguments, but it would be a lot more informative than much of what we are getting now. It is not a lot of work to do this.
If in doubt and you need a link. Just ask.

Some people speak from experience.

It's kind of boring to see "partisan" links quoted.

And the absolute worse is a link to a You Tube video about half an hour long or longer.



Edited by campy, Jan 11 2016, 03:21 PM.
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friendshipgal
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Guess everyone wants their own Trudashians
Trotsky
Jan 11 2016, 01:29 AM
If there is ONE homeless person or ONE jobless person then the appropriate number of new immigrants to be imported should be ZERO until such time that the jobless and homes people have their problem solved.

You don't put out a fire by tossing gasoline on it. In the same vein you don't solve homelessness by bringing in people who need homes. Nor do you solve employment unavailability by bringing in hoards of people without jobs.
You might find this interesting Trotsky, I thought this was a joke when I read it… a chronic shortage of employees. Does this mean that none of the unemployed Canadians are applying for a job, even in Alberta.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/maple-leaf-syrian-refugees-1.3394097
Maple Leaf Foods Inc. is offering to hire Syrian refugees to fill vacant jobs at two of its meat plants.

The company, like others in Canada's meat sector, is dealing with a chronic shortage of employees that has been exacerbated by restrictions placed on the temporary foreign worker program.

"We would be very pleased and honoured to be part of the solution in terms of helping find employment for the Syrian refugees," said Rory McAlpine, a senior vice-president at Maple Leaf.

"We have jobs available."

McAlpine said initially Maple Leaf could hire 25 refugees at its pork plant in Brandon, Man., and about 10 at its smaller operation in Lethbridge, Alta.

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swing
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swing
You might find this interesting Trotsky, I thought this was a joke when I read it… a chronic shortage of employees. Does this mean that none of the unemployed Canadians are applying for a job, even in Alberta.

I find this unbelievable as well but only 10 positions in Lethbridge, the remainder in Brandon Manitoba which is about 700 miles from Calgary. There would have to be a substantial financial benefit for someone to make that house hold move.
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friendshipgal
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Guess everyone wants their own Trudashians
swing
Jan 12 2016, 06:36 AM
You might find this interesting Trotsky, I thought this was a joke when I read it… a chronic shortage of employees. Does this mean that none of the unemployed Canadians are applying for a job, even in Alberta.

I find this unbelievable as well but only 10 positions in Lethbridge, the remainder in Brandon Manitoba which is about 700 miles from Calgary. There would have to be a substantial financial benefit for someone to make that house hold move.
True, I doubt they are high paying jobs, but there must be at least 10 people unemployed in Lethbridge.

Brandon, Manitoba has unemployment and I understand that unemployment among working age aboriginal people is 3 times higher. Maybe they should be working at attracting and training those people first. I'd like to know if they are getting applications or any interest at all from Canadians in those jobs, and if not why not?
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