Ontario's Basic Income Experiment Coming This Fall

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Ontario's Basic Income Experiment Coming This Fall
Topic Started: Mar 14 2016, 12:11 PM (197 Views)
Darcie	Mar 14 2016, 12:11 PM Post #1
Skeptic Posts: 31,154 Group: Member Member #714 Joined: March 30, 2010	Quote: TORONTO — A single paragraph buried in the Ontario budget could mean big changes in the lives of some of the province's most impoverished residents by giving them a guaranteed minimum income. Last month's provincial budget promised a pilot project to test "that a basic income could build on the success of minimum wage policies and increases in child benefits by providing more consistent and predictable support." The concept is on the radar of the federal Liberals, too — a Liberal-dominated parliamentary committee called on the Trudeau government to explore the concept of guaranteeing people a minimum income in a pre-budget report tabled Friday. Charles Sousa, Ontario's finance minister, said the province has not decided which community will be the test site for a basic income guarantee. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/13/ontario-will-test-idea-of-a-guaranteed-minimum-income-to-ease-poverty_n_9451076.html?ncid=fcbklnkcahpmg00000001 I was part of a group at UBC in the late 1960s that studied and issued a report to the feds at the time. Forty some years later...... The wheels of efficiency move slowly.



Durgan	Mar 14 2016, 01:45 PM Post #2
Veteran Member Posts: 13,273 Group: Gardening Guru Member #720 Joined: March 31, 2010	Some hillbilly town in Manitoba tried the experiment. It must have been a failure, since the results were kept secret.



Oldsalt	Mar 14 2016, 01:55 PM Post #3
Small Star Member Posts: 977 Group: Member Member #892 Joined: February 5, 2012	It was Dauphin Manitoba Quote: A Canadian City Once Eliminated Poverty And Nearly Everyone Forgot About It http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/12/23/mincome-in-dauphin-manitoba_n_6335682.html



Darcie	Mar 14 2016, 02:33 PM Post #4
Skeptic Posts: 31,154 Group: Member Member #714 Joined: March 30, 2010	Thanks OldSalt, I dare not hope that we could be forward enough to implement this program. Nothing is perfect but if we commit to it and adjust it as is seen fit then I do thing that our money would be well spent. Much less would be spent on medical care, and money could be reallocated from the welfare administration as well as the EI administration. I hope that sanity prevails and that we start working on this.



Darcie	Mar 14 2016, 02:35 PM Post #5
Skeptic Posts: 31,154 Group: Member Member #714 Joined: March 30, 2010	Durgan Mar 14 2016, 01:45 PM Some hillbilly town in Manitoba tried the experiment. It must have been a failure, since the results were kept secret. The Mulroney conservatives had no interest in letting the cat out of the bag, yes it was positive, not only for people but economically as well. Edited by Darcie, Mar 14 2016, 02:35 PM.



haili	Mar 14 2016, 11:38 PM Post #6
Gold Star Member Posts: 7,084 Group: Member Member #387 Joined: September 15, 2006	A basic annual income has been an NDP policy for many decades. It looks like the Liberals will claim the idea as their own but that's OK as long as it works and helps people who need it.



wildie	Mar 15 2016, 05:14 AM Post #7
Veteran Member Posts: 12,173 Group: Member Member #442 Joined: October 11, 2006	Her husband worked for the government owned telephone company. As I earned respectable wages doing the same thing, I wonder how they managed to take advantage of this program with both his and her incomes?



Darcie	Mar 15 2016, 05:40 AM Post #8
Skeptic Posts: 31,154 Group: Member Member #714 Joined: March 30, 2010	wildie Mar 15 2016, 05:14 AM Her husband worked for the government owned telephone company. As I earned respectable wages doing the same thing, I wonder how they managed to take advantage of this program with both his and her incomes? Good question, maybe they had disabled people to look after who had no income. I know I make a reasonable amount of income but it is the necessities that get me, over 50% of my income goes for rent, then I am doctor advised to take medication that is not covered etc. etc. etc . Probably the program had special considerations? If you find the reason why I would be interested in finding out.



heatseeker	Mar 16 2016, 12:07 AM Post #9
Veteran Member Posts: 10,320 Group: Member Member #713 Joined: March 30, 2010	Finland has introduced a basic income program, think it is 800 euros a month and every adult qualifies. If you think about it, basic income makes sense. You take all of the social workers and other bureaucrats out of the equation, which saves a ton of money. I assume that if you have a lot of other income the basic portion is clawed back through the tax system, just like OAP.



Trotsky	Mar 16 2016, 01:10 AM Post #10
Big City Boy Posts: 38,319 Group: Member Member #79 Joined: September 8, 2005	Quote: You take all of the social workers and other bureaucrats out of the equation. No you really don't. Presumably, one must apply and someone must ascertain the level of income (and probably assets) on a periodic level to make sure that the person continues to qualify for the government stipend. But I am 100% in favor of a guaranteed income even with a continuing bureaucracy.



heatseeker	Mar 16 2016, 01:19 AM Post #11
Veteran Member Posts: 10,320 Group: Member Member #713 Joined: March 30, 2010	With basic income you do take em all out. Everyone gets it, and then the tax system kicks in.



Trotsky	Mar 16 2016, 01:41 AM Post #12
Big City Boy Posts: 38,319 Group: Member Member #79 Joined: September 8, 2005	heatseeker Mar 16 2016, 01:19 AM With basic income you do take em all out. Everyone gets it, and then the tax system kicks in. What about the person earning 1000 euros per month? Does he get an 800 euro check every month? Is it 800 euros per person or per family? Edited by Trotsky, Mar 16 2016, 01:42 AM.



Darcie	Mar 16 2016, 02:15 AM Post #13
Skeptic Posts: 31,154 Group: Member Member #714 Joined: March 30, 2010	Trotsky Mar 16 2016, 01:10 AM Quote: You take all of the social workers and other bureaucrats out of the equation. No you really don't. Presumably, one must apply and someone must ascertain the level of income (and probably assets) on a periodic level to make sure that the person continues to qualify for the government stipend. But I am 100% in favor of a guaranteed income even with a continuing bureaucracy. It's like an equalization payment, done through the Revenue Agency.



friendshipgal	Mar 16 2016, 02:37 AM Post #14
Guess everyone wants their own Trudashians Posts: 12,815 Group: Member Member #241 Joined: February 12, 2006	It looks as if it's still in the works, they would scrap other benefits http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/10/finland-universal-basic-income-ubi-social-security http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-plans-to-give-every-citizen-800-euros-a-month-and-scrap-benefits-a6762226.html



heatseeker	Mar 16 2016, 09:42 AM Post #15
Veteran Member Posts: 10,320 Group: Member Member #713 Joined: March 30, 2010	I'd really like to see it get a really broad tryout in Canada, but not holding my breath. Stupid, because this a trend that has worked well with housing. Forget about all the person's problems and trying to fix them, just get him or her housed. I believe it started somewhere in the US as a conservative initiative and is being tried in Canada. Social workers and other well paid meddlers tend to exacerbate problems in these situation, not fix them. http://www.endhomelessness.org/blog/entry/study-data-show-that-housing-chronically-homeless-people-saves-money-lives#.Vuhz7owrIzY http://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how Edited by heatseeker, Mar 16 2016, 09:46 AM.



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