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| A complaint about the TC. | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 28 2010, 07:02 AM (1,198 Views) | |
| Tylerdelphia | Dec 28 2010, 07:02 AM Post #1 |
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WC
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Just so you know ahead of time, I'm going to be using my recent trade with RDT as an example for this post. The disclaimer here is that I've felt this way for a little while now about other trades and haven't had the time to say anything, and it got better for a little while, but now I'm taking the time to post this. I'm not biased in the fact that it happened to me and I'm pissed, if I'm biased at all it's the fact that I waited until it happened to me to post about it. The TC, as you know, has been designed to prevent absolute trade rapes from occurring. To prevent so-called "trade bullies" from taking advantage of new, stupid, or naive GMs. This has been needed, and I'm not about to down the TC as a whole, it's just that since this league has started it's starting to go away from what it was built for. The TC is now starting to decline trades based on personal opinions and whether or not they would make that same trade to influence the outcome of a deal. My recent trade with RDT that got declined was: Hornets get PF Troy Murphy, Kings get SF Mike Dunleavy and Grizzlies 2015 1st. This trade was accepted from mofo, then declined by CC and Hajj. CC and Hajj's reasons were "in no world is Murphy worth a 1st" and "Sorry, but I can't justify someone giving up a 1st for a contract that isn't big or expiring, doesn't have bird years and is on a 33 year old player. Even with a really good player I'd have trouble passing, but with Troy Murphy? Sorry." respectively. First of all, to Hajj: "even with a really good player I'd have trouble passing", really? For a probable non-lotto pick and Mike Fucking Dunleavy? I'll assume that by really good, you mean non-superstar. So if I were to have traded William Buford for Dunleavy and the Grizzlies 1st, you're telling me you wouldn't have passed it? Probably because it wouldn't be fair to me. What everyone saw on this trade was that I was getting a 1st for Troy Murphy and WOAH that's just WAYYYY too much. Right? The Grizzlies are pretty good, they have young players, and Shadow is the most competent new GM we've had in a long time. In all likelihood, that will be a non-lotto pick next year. and if I have to tell you why Mike Dunleavy has no value, then you're Caddy or batsman and I'm not addressing you anyways. Newsflash: Troy Murphy isn't that bad. Hajj has a bias because Murphy sucked for him last year and CC has been known to judge trades without fully looking at them (Sorry CC, ily<3 no homo). Murphy has been on the bench for me all year with the exception of 1 sim. and yet he still has managed 13 ppg as a non-option off of the bench. Also, 9 rpg. I'm sorry, I fail to see where he's SO bad. and mofo made the argument of him being the worst defender in EBL on the grounds of "The Wizards got rid of him and their defense went way up". The Magic's ppg went up after JB traded Dwight, are you telling me that he's a shitty player and JB shouldn't have gotten a 1st for him? Murphy is only at C+ defense, but there are a lot of starters with C+ defense in this league. Yeah, he's not great by any means, but he's not the worst. As a matter of fact, if you really want to take the time to go look at the box scores for days 50-56 where he started, he didn't get torched in any match-up. At all. The players who you expect to put up 20-30 a night did, and the players who you expect to put up 5-15 did. Exactly what you get from anyone with C+ defense- the big names who take 20-25 shots a game put up a lot of points and the guys who don't, don't. The big point I'm trying to make here, aside of whether or not Troy Murphy is actually good, is that no matter how you look at it, it wasn't a rape. He's a 13/9 guy off the bench, that's big offensive output, and no matter what argument you try and make a 1st for him isn't absurd, especially when the 1st is on a team like the Grizzlies who will probably end up being non-lotto. Just because you wouldn't make the trade if you were the GM of that team, doesn't mean it's not passable from the TC. This is why we all GM a team, to make moves for ourselves. and unless a trade is completely unpassable, it should be passed. Troy Murphy for a 1st isn't completely unpassable. RDT understands bird years, he's won a damned title and has been around here for what seems like forever. He's not dumb, and if he wants to give up a 1st for Murphy then why the hell not let him? Murphy has real offensive value, and if RDT thinks his team could compete next year with him then that's his decision, not yours. It's not the TCs job to decide what we do with our teams, it's the TCs job to make sure we don't trade Dwayne Wade for a box of peanuts and cracker jacks (and I don't care if we ever come back). Earlier in the season RDT traded for Jason Terry and gave up Moon, Hayward and a 1st. Terry is 36, he's probably gonna retire at the end of the year, and the Hornets weren't going to compete for a title this year. I didn't agree with that trade, and I wouldn't have done it if I were RDT, but it was passable. It was passable because Terry has talent and on the off-chance that he sticks around next year it may help RDT's team. So tell me how Jason Terry for a 1st is passable but Troy Murphy for a 1st isn't? At least Murphy is guaranteed to come back next year. Even mofo passed this trade, and he told me in the chat "Nice job, I wouldn't have given up a 2nd for Murphy". He wouldn't have made that trade, but he knows it's not a complete rape, which is why he approved it. Let GMs make the trades they want to, we GM teams for a reason. It's not your place to decide what is right for a team and what's wrong for a team, it's your place to step in when a trade is so bad it makes you cringe. and a non-lotto future 1st for a 13/9 non-option off the bench player is NOT that bad. Come on guys, relax a little bit. I agree 100% that there needs to be a TC, but it's starting to get be too much. If a trade is an absolute rape then (N) it, but if it's just something you wouldn't do if you were that team's GM then (Y). Just because one team benefits a little more than the other doesn't mean the trade isn't passable. If we all made deals that were completely even and both teams won, then we wouldn't have a league. Trades are gonna be a little one-sided, but not all of them are too one-sided to pass. 2nd disclaimer: In no way am I personally bashing or looking down upon anyone in the TC or the league in general. Mofo is doing a fine job running this league and it's one of the best we've had so far. and everyone on the TC are good people and I like all of you. But it's easy to get so used to accepting and declining trades that you stop judging them as a normal trade/completely unpassable and start taking a quick glance at them and going "lol no way would I do that, decline". I still think highly of all of you, just lax up a little and do what you're supposed to do instead of making decisions for GMs. |
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| Shadow | Dec 28 2010, 07:36 AM Post #2 |
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Magus
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I have to agree with Tyler. I respect the TC and am grateful and thankful that we have one... but I think their judgement have gotten pretty clouded. Just because "you" wouldn't do the trade in that situation doesn't mean others feel the same. I think the judgement has leaned too far towards personal opinion and mis-calculated value. I feel it's unfair to some GMs when they are trying to do a trade that they(and the recipient) of the trade REALLY likes, and it's not a trade-rape... and it gets shot down because other people wouldn't have done that trade or they just don't see the appeal in the deal. Well, news flash, the person making the trade isn't you... it's them and they made the trade because they had their reasons and because they like it and think it's a good deal, otherwise they wouldn't have made that trade. I would be pissed off if a trade that both me and the other GM like and think is fair was shot down because other people wouldn't have done the same trade or that their values differs from my values. It's what the trader's own values are, not other people's values... mis-calculated and mis-thought of values. Only in cases of complete trade-rape or GM's that are calling it quits and doing a firesale and selling everyone for way cheaper than they're worth should a trade be rejected. For example, the very first trade I was about to make when I first joined this league as a no-experience NBA sim league GM, it was declined cause I didn't know the value of my players and I didn't know what I was doing. So I'm grateful for that, but other trades have been rejected that should've been passed and vice-versa, it's just annoying how your trade that should've been passed doesn't get passed while others that shouldn't get passed do. I'm not putting down the TC or talking shit about them, definitely not. I admire and respect all the members of the TC. I'm just saying maybe it's time for a little change, lessen the restrictions and harshness of judging trades and add a little more personal feel/thought and less bias into those trades. Thanks, this is just my input(my 2 cents, not worth much). I hope I don't lose anyone's respect or get hated by anyone for this... *crosses fingers* please no hate mail xD |
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| LeBrum James | Dec 28 2010, 07:38 AM Post #3 |
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Warheads on 4heads
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I'm glad someone said this. I've tried saying it without going public with it. I wholeheartedly agree Tyler. |
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Dec 28 2010, 10:41 AM Post #4 |
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Kanye
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"The Magic's ppg went up after JB traded Dwight, are you telling me that he's a shitty player and JB shouldn't have gotten a 1st for him? " not to pick on anything you said but this is because i went from slow tempo to fast tempo |
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| GBB | Dec 28 2010, 11:44 AM Post #5 |
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Two Time Knicks GM
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JB, you really need to work on your sarcasm detection. |
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Dec 28 2010, 12:06 PM Post #6 |
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Kanye
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i knew that it was sarcasm i wasnt talking about that part i was pointing out that the fact in that was flawed because i had changed tempo |
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Dec 28 2010, 01:37 PM Post #7 |
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Tyler
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One thing I've noticed finally being on the TC is that everyone has their own opinion on what's valuable and what's not. It's still rather inconsistent. EDIT: I do believe that is a good part my fault. The best point made in that post is that I did get to trade a first for Jason Terry, yet not for for Troy Murphy. I didn't even think of that yesterday. Edited by RDT, Dec 28 2010, 01:39 PM.
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| Mofoticon | Dec 28 2010, 02:17 PM Post #8 |
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EBL Commissioner
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All I can really say to this is I chose the TC based on how knowledgeble and successful the GM's have been and if they think a trade isn't passable, then I agree with their decision, no matter how they came to that decision. Some people on the TC think only rapes shouldn't be passed, some think unfair trades shouldn't be passed, but either way it's their call. I'm sorry your trade didn't pass but Hajj and CC disagreed with me and that's the whole point of a TC, to make sure I'm not the sole opinion on these trades. |
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| LeBrum James | Dec 28 2010, 02:22 PM Post #9 |
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Warheads on 4heads
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The issue I see is that their reasoning behind not passing the trade is that they wouldn't do the trade. Where is it actually unfair? Can they explain how Murphy for a 1st isn't fair? At least if something is going to be vetoed, can people get an explanation? |
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| JIMMMMMY | Dec 28 2010, 02:25 PM Post #10 |
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GOOD
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Okay first off, I've approved plenty of trades that I wouldn't do, for example that artest and pacers trade I wouldn't do but its passable, and to tell me I don't look at trades is an insult because I do, as a matter of fact people always come up to me asking about this trade and that and i somewhat even build the trade for them but ur gonna tell me I never look at them, the only trades I wouldnt look at is a second for a second cuz how would those make that big of a difference anyways. I'm sorry a 33 year old with no birds and a terrible defender is NOT worth a first, if I were to do a trade or something of that sort all of you would be bitching man this is so unfair, basically this post told me is you want only MOFO to be TC since we all have different opinions and can't cut the mustard, and its not only RAPE trades we (N) its trade we seem to be unfair and that trade seems unfair to me. |
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| LeBrum James | Dec 28 2010, 02:37 PM Post #11 |
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Warheads on 4heads
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Not even a terrible defender who would more than likely put up a double/double in terms of points and rebounds as a starter? I'm all for a trade committee, but on this trade I'm scratching my skull. |
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| rimrocka4144 | Dec 28 2010, 03:10 PM Post #12 |
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His Awesomeness
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for tyler Posted Image |
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| Joshoeuh | Dec 28 2010, 03:40 PM Post #13 |
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Go Seahawks
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While I am not sure I completely agree with the overall sentiment of your post, I can say that I am at least with you in this case. While I would not have done the deal if I were in RDT's shoes, I don't really see it as unfair. Let's say it was the Thunder and Kings making this deal instead of the Hornets and the Kings. If Baldwin wanted to trade a scrub and a 1st for a scoring boost off the bench, would you change your vote then? Be honest. Again, for the most part I think the TC does a pretty OK job. It's hard to keep a personal bias out of a deal and I for one would rather the deal not go through as it gives RDT a better player and I have his pick, but I'd have a hard time vetoing that one. To me, the TC has two primary responsibilities: Stop rapes, and stop collusion. Anything beyond that is unnecessary. That's just me though. |
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Dec 28 2010, 03:49 PM Post #14 |
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Kanye
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Maybe it would help if when voting on a trade you put your vote into one of four categories Yes, Collusion, Trade Rape, and Questionable In the case of Yes it is passed Collusion would not be passed and each team would be warned Trade Rape would not be passed Questionable would have a ruling in favor of one side and the side that the TC concludes is losing the trade would have the option to still send the trade through even with the TC ruling just a suggestion dont :chairshot: me |
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| Tylerdelphia | Dec 28 2010, 03:57 PM Post #15 |
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WC
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Where did I say I only want mofo as the TC? We did that once and it was awful. <_< As a matter of fact I'm pretty sure I went out of my way to say that I agree a TC needs to be there, and that I respect everyone in it and most of the times everyone does their job right. Listen CC, I wasn't trying to be insulting, I have no beef with you or Hajj or anyone else. Maybe I worded things wrong and made it sound insulting but it was like 5 AM, leave me alone. I respect you, a lot, you're one of the best GMs that we have and one of the most down to earth people on the forums, and I'm sorry if I insulted you. Just realize that me taking a shot at the TC as a whole isn't me taking a personal shot at you just because you (N)ed my trade, you know I'm not like that. I understand that you don't think it's fair, but it's the fact of how unfair is it? Because if it's only a little unfair, there's no reason it shouldn't be passed, especially when a trade was passed earlier in the season that's almost an exact duplicate of this trade. I understand that Murphy is 33 with no birds, but at least he has a 2 year contract, which means he'll be back next year. The negatives are that he's 33 and no birds, the positives are that he's a 13/9 guy as a non-option off the bench, and could easily start for RDT. That to me, is not "unpassable", that's a passable trade that favors one side slightly. Listen, like I said, I'm not mad my trade didn't get passed, I'm not doing all of this because I didn't get a 1st, it's a 1st, I'll live. I've just noticed this a lot this league, and other people have too. |
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