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| A complaint about the TC. | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 28 2010, 07:02 AM (1,199 Views) | |
| Tylerdelphia | Dec 28 2010, 04:00 PM Post #16 |
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WC
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If we're offering up suggestions, then here's mine: Stop closing trades right after they don't pass. If a trade gets declined, both parties involved should be able to explain their point of why they're making the trade and make an argument for it (in one post only, don't need that shit going on all week <_<) and ask for ONE re-vote. This way even if someone has a personal bias or isn't looking at it for the right reasons, then they have a chance to see the deal from the GMs perspective. And if it still gets an (N), then fine, but at least they've had a chance to explain their point and try to make it work. |
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| Joshoeuh | Dec 28 2010, 04:03 PM Post #17 |
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Go Seahawks
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I always try and offer up an explanation for a trade when I accept it already... Legitimately weigh the pros and cons for both sides. I've never had a trade get vetoed, that I know of. Not in a long time, at least. |
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| Mofoticon | Dec 28 2010, 04:20 PM Post #18 |
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EBL Commissioner
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It used to be like this and always caused friction among gm's who didn't agree with what other people said...We've been around for 6 years with sim leagues and I've run 4 of them for over 20 simulated seasons, I know what works and what doesn't for these things. |
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| Tylerdelphia | Dec 28 2010, 04:22 PM Post #19 |
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WC
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I generally do too, just.. not last night. Listen, I don't expect any rules to change, and I don't expect things to be any different. I know mofo way too well to think that any rules are going to be changed when the league is generally working fine. (No offense, don't even start, it's fact and you know it. :P) I just thought that I'd bring it to light and see if anyone agrees with me and to hear other sides of the argument. All I'm really asking for is to not quick-judge a trade. Think for a few if a trade is actually unpassable or if it's just slightly unfair. Slightly unfair trades should be passed, that's all there is to it. More consistency and less bias isn't a ridiculous thing to ask for when it's aimed towards people who have a direct impact on how we build/re-build our teams. |
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| Mofoticon | Dec 28 2010, 04:24 PM Post #20 |
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EBL Commissioner
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And again, I've got no problem with people airing grievances like this but I'm not sure what exactly Tyler wants out of this...Hajj and CC probably won't change their opinions on trades and how they evaluate them. To that extend is what makes the TC good...6 different people with 6 different opinions on any one trade. |
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| Tylerdelphia | Dec 28 2010, 04:31 PM Post #21 |
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WC
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I don't want anything mofo, and that's fine that you don't see a problem with how things are, but every GM who has posted in here with the exception of CC has agreed with me on one level or another. Change something, don't change something, that's fine, but don't sit here and tell me that you know what works best and that I have no reason to post this because I can't get anything out of it. You're talking to me like I'm 5 and I don't fucking appreciate it. All I tried to do here is air out a problem that I have, I wasn't expecting anything to come out of it, I don't want a blue ribbon pinned to my jacket saying "Best Problem Putterouter ever", I just wanted my concern to be heard. I feel like trades are being judged unfairly and there's a problem with the TC controlling trades that are borderline unfair because it's like they're GMing our teams for us. That's it, I said it, and a few people agreed with me, and now we're having a discussion. We don't have to "get something" out of it and you don't need to plant your foot down as the great authority like people need to recognize how great of a league owner you are. You're doing a fine job, like I said, and this league is going great so just let us have a discussion on it without questioning my motives on posting this. |
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| Mofoticon | Dec 28 2010, 04:34 PM Post #22 |
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EBL Commissioner
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Your grievances have been heard with how you think the TC is doing a bad job and some people have agreed with them...but then you say you don't want anything out of it? I don't get it. You are conflicting yourself in each post here. Keep on discussing and voicing opinions on these things, that goes for everybody, I don't care, but I am confused in general on this. |
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| Tylerdelphia | Dec 28 2010, 04:41 PM Post #23 |
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WC
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I'm saying I don't want a rule change or an extra vote cast or a re-vote or anything substancial like that. I just hope that everyone on the TC realizes that me and other people think they need to loosen up a little bit with the trades they don't pass, that's all. I'm not asking for a complete overhaul in how they think or anything like that, just to loosen up a little bit and it be how it should be where the trades are made or not made by the GMs and the TC is there to stop really, really bad trades from happening. Just.. relax a little. |
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| Mofoticon | Dec 28 2010, 04:46 PM Post #24 |
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EBL Commissioner
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That's fine and maybe some of the TC will listen to you but there is so "set" criteria on what the TC is supposed to do except evaluating trades. I expect all of them to put their biases aside when they evaluate these trades and just look at them as an impartial member of the league. If I felt any of them were not doing this or were just rejecting trades because they wouldn't do them themselves then I'd step in but for now I haven't seen much evidence of this. CC and Hajj both gave their opinions on why they felt the trade wasn't fair last night, so it's not like they just flat out said no and that's that. Myself, I thought it was very close but I feel like both of you are smart, experienced GMs and must have had your reasons to do it. Hajj and CC didn't see it my way and that's fine by me. I stick by the TC 100% on what they decide. |
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Dec 28 2010, 04:48 PM Post #25 |
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Tyler
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The system is flawed, but that's the thing. Every system will be flawed in some way. I admit this does work best now (I used to absolutely hate the one man TC), but that doesn't mean there won't be problems with it. I'm sure I will disagree with a future trade just as badly as a past trade. I think one idea would be, before a TC member rejects a trade, they should talk to the one on the losing side of the deal and get their story. It doesn't mean that TC member will change their mind, but it might help in some sense. It's fine if that doesn't get implemented. It's just an idea that I think I will abide by myself from now on. |
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| Tylerdelphia | Dec 28 2010, 04:52 PM Post #26 |
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WC
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CC's logic was "in no world is Troy Murphy worth a 1st" ..how is that explaining why he declined the trade? Why isn't Troy Murphy worth a 1st, if he explained that it might be, but he didn't. Murphy is 13/9 off the bench, that seems worth a 1st to me just by looking at stats, so the fact that he said that without explaining anything else that he took into account of the trade like Hajj did with bird years, etc, made it seem like all he did was see I was getting Troy Murphy for a 1st and immediately decline it without looking at it. Yes, he made an argument for it today, after I called him out on it so it isn't exactly the same. That's fine to sit there and tell me you don't see bias and everyone is doing their job fine, but don't try and tell me CC gave me a justifiable reason for declining that trade last night. To CC: I'm not saying you didn't have one, I'm just saying you didn't give me one. |
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| Polo | Dec 28 2010, 09:21 PM Post #27 |
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Devonta
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I think that a trade should never be vetoed between two experienced GM's. I mean, come on, some of us have been doing this for 6+ years and those of us who have really do not need any type of restriction as to how we trade, unless of course there is the speculation of collusion. If this would've been one of the newer GM's doing this trade with Tyler, sure veto it because there is a legitimate chance that person doesn't really know what he's doing. But RDT, who has been doing this almost as long as anybody, and has won championships, doesn't need other gm's telling him that he's being ripped off. RDT probably realizes that it hurts his future in a sense but RDT has always been about selling for the present and putting himself in cap hell to win now. That is his style and I don't think that CC or Hajj or any member of the TC should have the right to make him alter his strategy. Now this is just my two cents, and I'm not singling anyone out, but I think if two experienced GMs are making a trade, you should almost always give them the benefit of the doubt and trust they know what is best for their teams better than you do. |
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| thuggy | Dec 28 2010, 09:54 PM Post #28 |
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Numba 1 Announca
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.....Just wanted to note that I was not the cause of this little tiff. *leaves* Also, I agree 100% with Polo. |
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| LeBrum James | Dec 28 2010, 11:18 PM Post #29 |
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Warheads on 4heads
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I just think if a trade is vetoed by a trade committee member, they should give a legit reason as to why it should be vetoed and not "I wouldn't do it if I were in his shoes" or "in what world is such and such ____" |
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| JIMMMMMY | Dec 28 2010, 11:20 PM Post #30 |
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GOOD
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If you guys want a full body explanation to why I (N) each trade from now on, I will do so, IDC i just tried to sum up the murphy one but if u want one i'll give you one and if you dont agree with me then so be it |
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