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| The Lord of the Rings; As if you didn't see this one coming. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 11 2006, 10:02:06 PM (933 Views) | |
| WeirdRaptor | Sep 16 2006, 01:32:34 PM Post #21 |
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WeirdRaptor
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Yep. Right now its being barrowed by a cousin who's just now getting into Tolkien. It was a really good British actor reading it! Hmm. Sending me the German sets might want to wait until after I've successfully mastered the language. |
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| Malte279 | Sep 16 2006, 03:53:17 PM Post #22 |
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I'm a historian. I MUST be like that!
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Kannst Du mir ein bisschen was auf Deutsch schreiben Nick? |
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| f-22 "raptor" ace | Sep 16 2006, 10:04:01 PM Post #23 |
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yay
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i can also speak some german just not enough to talk to someone. |
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| Nick22 | Sep 18 2006, 01:15:46 PM Post #24 |
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Resident History Buff
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Ja, verstimmt mein Freund. Ich habe sehr viel zu lernen von mich bis im Deuschland. |
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| Malte279 | Sep 18 2006, 03:35:39 PM Post #25 |
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I'm a historian. I MUST be like that!
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If you would like to get some correction, practice, whatever to improve your German I would be happy to help, as there is so much about the language which can be mixed up, confused etc. |
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| Nick22 | Sep 21 2006, 12:05:49 PM Post #26 |
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Resident History Buff
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Are you refering to me or raptor? |
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| Malte279 | Sep 21 2006, 12:12:40 PM Post #27 |
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I'm a historian. I MUST be like that!
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The offer goes to both of you. Perhaps I was refering to you in particular as I have seen some of your German already, but the offer goes to both of you. |
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| Nick22 | Sep 21 2006, 12:17:14 PM Post #28 |
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Resident History Buff
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How is my German, on a scale of 1 to 5? 1 means pathetic, and 5 means execellent. Personally, I'm just Ok, in my virew, but as a native german you'd have a better idea of my abilities... |
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| Malte279 | Sep 21 2006, 12:33:33 PM Post #29 |
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I'm a historian. I MUST be like that!
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I dislike to grade anyone on a scale. While I know what you meant to say what you wrote in German literally means: "Yes, angry my friend. I have very much to learn from myself to in Germany." So there is room for improvement
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| Nick22 | Sep 21 2006, 12:57:48 PM Post #30 |
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Resident History Buff
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So much for those 4 semesters of college German But I was merely average , gradewise in them anyway.
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| Dwalin | May 18 2007, 07:23:46 PM Post #31 |
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Chomper
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I have 2 questions I was wondering about for a long time: 1) What happened to the Entwives? Were they all killed? In some sources Tolkien says they probably were, but then I found this quote: As for the Entwives: I do not know. ... But I think in TT, 80-81 it is plain that there would be for the Ents no re-union in 'history' -- but Ents and their wives being rational creatures would find some 'earthly paradise' until the end of this world: beyond which the wisdom neither of Elves nor Ents could see. Though maybe they shared the hope of Aragorn that they were 'not bound for ever to the circles of the world and beyond them is more than memory.' .... Letters, 419 (#338) This is rather confusing. If the Ents cannot have any reunion in “history”, so why is paradise that they are supposed to find called “earthly”? Do you have any ideas? 2) Who killed the leader of the Nazgul - Merry or Eowyn? Eowyn struck him on his head while Merry just wounded him in his knee, but Eowyn's sword was just a normal weapon, so it shouldn't do any harm to a magical creature, while Merry's sword was able to do so. There can be also some misunderstanding about the prophecy: it stated that “no living man could harm the Nazgul”. But does the term “man” indicate a gender, so it means that the Nazgul wouldn’t be killed by a man, but by a woman or did it indicate a race, so that means he wouldn't be killed by a man, but by a hobbit? |
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| WeirdRaptor | May 18 2007, 09:57:24 PM Post #32 |
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WeirdRaptor
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To my knowledge, that bit in "The Lord of the Rings" is the only source disclosing the entwives, really. However, the story never really does conclude what happened to them, but an acquaintance of Sam Gamgee did see a walking tree in some woods, once. Yes, Tolkien said they probably were killed. Perhaps, but he never reveals outright, to my knowledge, anyway. "Earthyl paradise" is basically just that. As good as its gonna get on this earth, then at the End, they'll be reuinited, one way or the other. Eowyn. Merry just jabbed enough to distract him long enough for the other "non-man" to finish him off. The prophesy surrounding the Witch King was very literally minded. No "human male" could harm the Witch King, but a hobbit and a woman could. Its as simple as that. |
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| Malte279 | May 19 2007, 06:10:36 AM Post #33 |
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I'm a historian. I MUST be like that!
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As for the ents the males probably were very much decimated as well. They had to fight yet another battle after they took Isengard:
The wikipedia article on Ents (for whose relieablility I can give no guarantee) reads:
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| Malte279 | May 19 2007, 06:11:11 AM Post #34 |
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I'm a historian. I MUST be like that!
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As for the prophecy of the ring wraith, it may have refered to both, gender and "species". However, I do have the impression that the role of Eowyn was stressed. From what I read Tolkien was very dissatisfied with the outcome of the prophecies in Shakespeare's Macbeth. One of the prophecies was:Shakespeare had that prophecy fulfilled by having the soldiers attacking Macbeth attaching treebranches to their armour to camouflage their numbers (Tolkien came up with the Ents as a way which he thought Shakespeare should have taken). The other Macbeth prophecy Tolkien "improved" was this one: Shakespeare fulfilled that prophecy by having Macduff, the slayer of Macbeth, being born by Caesarean section while Tolkien took the more obvious approach by making a woman the vanquisher of the Witchking. Fighting women (e.g. Joan of Arc, Margaret of Anjou) are usually presented very negative in Shakespeare's plays. |
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| Nick22 | May 19 2007, 12:21:09 PM Post #35 |
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Resident History Buff
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Yes, the Entwives are gone, at least they are assumed to be.,.. It was Eowyn who killed the Witch-King...Merry's attempts only cost him his blade, for it was consumed by fire after piercing the Witch King.. |
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| Malte279 | May 19 2007, 12:59:38 PM Post #36 |
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I'm a historian. I MUST be like that!
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Speaking of blades:While there are many magical swords in the lord of the rings there I don't think there is any statement claiming that it takes a magical blade to hurt a ring wraith. |
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| Nick22 | May 19 2007, 01:17:54 PM Post #37 |
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Resident History Buff
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While Eowyn's sword was not magical, like Merry's was, it didn't matter. Merry's magical sword was unable to kill the Witch king, yet Eowyn's normal sword was, because she was a woman, and thus fuilfilled the prophecy. She was the only one who could have fulfilled the prophecy.. |
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| Kor | Oct 23 2007, 09:35:17 PM Post #38 |
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Or perhaps Merry's sword was able to break the key enchantments protecting the Witchking, as well as distracting him, so that Eowyn's blade could finish the job. Just one idea. |
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| Tails_155 | Oct 23 2007, 10:00:07 PM Post #39 |
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Ducky
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As you've already noticed by our previous skirmish I have a moderate to strong disliking for extremely popular things... I never got into this series, and I thought the movies (mainly the first one, the second one was better about it) were rather long, I don't read a lot of books though, I just don't prefer it, but that's just my opinion |
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| Malte279 | Oct 24 2007, 02:15:00 AM Post #40 |
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I'm a historian. I MUST be like that!
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I guess it partly depends on our readiness to invest more time in reading a book than it would take to watch a movie. The fascination of a book also depends on our phantasy and our ability to imagine what we see spelled out in letters rather than having it presented in actual pictures which are more prescriptive than descriptive. As far as I am concerned books usually are much better than any movies based on the books. The only case I can think of where I think a movie exceeded the book it was based on was "The animals of Farthing Wood" (and as it was made a TV series they had a lot more time to tell the story than they would have if they had tried to make it one single movie). As for the killing of the witch king I still don't see any line in the lord of the rings that would suggest that it took any magical blade to injure him. The prophecy (who was the one to make that prophecy anyway? I don't think they mention this important detail anywhere in the book) is about who can(not) kill the witch king, not about which kind of weapon it takes. |
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So much for those 4 semesters of college German
But I was merely average , gradewise in them anyway.


2:34 PM Jul 11