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| Metroid: Other M | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 30 2010, 08:59:29 AM (2,442 Views) | |
| Littlefoot1616 | Oct 3 2010, 06:08:31 PM Post #41 |
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The Inquisitive Quadruped (admin)
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Listen people, I really don't know what the issue is here but this needs to stop. No matter how loud it is shouted, a rant is still just another opinion. Shmuck, if you don't like the game then fine fair enough that is your opinion but please don't come charging in yelling about what you don't agree with. It is purely subjective. It is was YOU don't like about it. Other don't appear to have a major problem with Other M. There's no need to go on about it. I trust this banter will be over from this point onwards coz if it continues I will be force to take action. I haven't had to do that as of yet and I'd hate to think I'd have to start now. Let it rest people... |
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| DarkHououmon | Oct 3 2010, 06:14:41 PM Post #42 |
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"Be prepared, Snappy boy. Your luck has run out..."
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Um, yelling? Who is yelling? Truttle and I were just stating our opinions as well. Where did you get the idea that we were yelling? I thought we were just making some interesting discussions. |
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| Truttle | Oct 3 2010, 06:29:11 PM Post #43 |
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Chomper
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Don't worry about it Littlefoot1616. I tried to keep my post as civil as possible. There was no insults and no banter. This topic is still under control. We're just sharing opinions. |
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| Campion1 | Oct 3 2010, 06:36:31 PM Post #44 |
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Ducky
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I think previous users is a pretty cool guy. eh makes long detailed posts and doesnt afraid of anything. |
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| Littlefoot1616 | Oct 4 2010, 03:02:27 AM Post #45 |
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The Inquisitive Quadruped (admin)
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No one's yelling DH. But I don't want anymore ranting verbal volleys over what people don't like about this game. There's no need for it to continue. I'm not impeding on anyone voicing their opinion. That is the point for areas like this. Also, no one's in trouble but there's no need to overdo it. I'm just asking that people be a little more mindful and respectful about what you say. A rant is still just an opinion after all. Carry on people!
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| DarkHououmon | Oct 4 2010, 07:40:59 AM Post #46 |
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"Be prepared, Snappy boy. Your luck has run out..."
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I'll just refrain from posting in this topic. |
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| LBTFan13 | Oct 4 2010, 11:50:02 AM Post #47 |
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Grandpa Longneck for President!
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I agree with Kacie. I really don't find any issue with this topic. Yes, TheNumberOneShmuck posted a really long rant about what he didn't like about the game, but it's exactly like you said. It's only his opinion, nothing more. He's not trying to offend people who enjoy the game and he's not trying to persuade people that it's a bad game. To be honest, I'm actually kind of glad he posted his rant. It provided numerous points of discussion about the game which I think are going actually very well. Sure when he first posted the rant it was a bit much, but he had edited his post to make it less extreme. I don't see anything wrong with continuing our discussion here, as really that's all we are doing at this point. So with all due respect Littlefoot1616, I wouldn't worry so much about this topic at the moment. Now granted if it gets out of hand in the future then yes something should be done. At the rate it is going, I don't see any need for action to be taken, or for any concern about the mood of the discussion
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| Littlefoot1616 | Oct 4 2010, 12:01:43 PM Post #48 |
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The Inquisitive Quadruped (admin)
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No worries or issues guys. Just overviewing to keep things in check and preserve the peace is all. No one needs to stop posting.
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| TheNumberOneShmuck | Oct 4 2010, 08:20:41 PM Post #49 |
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\_O__/ *Orton pose*
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I made very sure to only state that certain points, ones which might have been toeing the line between objective and subjective, were not matters of opinion, but of set-in-stone portrayal by the various designers of the series. Everything else was clearly either objective or subjective.
The manga section was purely to make the point that involving the manga, which many like to do to support the PTSD theory, hurts Other M more than it helps. The rest of the argument mostly ignores the manga.
Corruption wasn't much further along than the first two games. It made everything prettier, and introduced new liquid physics for the Fuel Gel, but it wasn't that different. And besides, Samus's face isn't the only way to show fear. Body language is a very powerful tool in the right hands, and Retro certainly could have done it with the Gamecube hardware, no problem.
Actually, it matters a lot. As I said in my rant, I don't have a problem with Samus showing fear, I had a problem with the extreme they took it to. That really was the main point of most of my complaints; not that they did those things, but that they went overboard with them.
Again, the PTSD thing is manga-contained. Other M never states that it's PTSD, only the manga makes it clear. And, as I said in the rant, regular human soldiers might not be able to just "get over" PTSD, but the manga shows Samus doing just that. Samus recovered mentally a few years after the initial incident, and even if PTSD could make a comeback by way of Ridley seemingly being able to come back from the dead, Samus would quickly get over that, too. As for the "hardened killing machine" comment, I never once stated that this would make her immune to fear or emotions, I'm just saying that, with the manga demonstrating her superior ability to recover mentally, it stands to reason that her Chozo and military training would provide the mental toughening that could make that a feasible character trait. By the way, Samus is a hardened killing machine, but all that means to me is that she can take a life when she needs to, without hesitation, and without freaking out about it afterwards. Oh, and "machine" because, in her travels around the Galaxy filled with hostile creatures, she ends up killing quite a lot, sometimes dozens and dozens of creatures within only a few minutes.
That's all good and well, but it still causes a problem within Other M. Specifically, the fact that Ridley squeezed the life out of her, then slammed her into a wall and scraped her across it. Her suit faltered here. And yet, even with her broken concentration due to the freakout, and Ridley's assault (which I imagine would be capable of some serious spinal trauma, when combining the squeezing with the slam against the wall) her suit never fully deactivates, and she's able to quickly recover after he drops her, whereas Adam's one shot knocked her out, disabled her suit, and temporarily rendered her a weakened, hobbling wreck. Oh, and the suit being disabled renders the magic shot further implausible, due to the following: she's been shown a couple of times unconscious with the suit still active, meaning that if the suit only functions while she focuses on keeping it functional, she's probably trained enough that sustaining it is as natural to her as breathing, which would mean that Adam's shot would have had to hit her extra hard to cause her to lose her ability to sustain the suit. Either that, or, more likely, the suit toggles on and of with a thought, which again would have to mean that Adam's shot had to hit extra hard in order to actually cause a malfunction in the suit. Either way, that one shot had to be amazingly powerful, and probably hit an absurdly precise point at the same time, to do the kind of ridiculous damage it did. Ultimately, it just boils down to cutscene convenience, and if you asked Sakamoto about it, I imagine he'd be tripping over his words while attempting to come up with an explanation. I honestly think you put more thought into it than he did (quite impressive, actually; I hadn't put much thought into how the suit functioned until now)
My response is equally short, and consists of two points: 1. I said that Fusion is BETTER at Samus's emotions, not that Fusion had a MORE emotive Samus. It just comes down to the point that Fusion's Samus, as a character, stayed very true to the Samus we'd seen in the other games, but still managed to grow quite a bit as a character. 2. You can show TONS of emotion through text. Books have proven that for hundreds of years.
First, James is the Deleter. After talking to "Madeline Bergman", Samus leaves, and someone approaches "Madeline", the screen goes black, then there's a loud noise. When you go back to that room, James lying there, dead, with his visor smashed in. The Deleter is also shown, in the scene where he kicks K.G.'s body into a lava pool, to have the 07 on the front of his helmet noticeably worn and faded, something only James seems to have, as the other members helmets have the 07 in good condition. Anyway, Adam does indeed want to keep Samus from discovering the secrets of Sector 0, but wanting to keep her from figuring it out is still no reason to not immediately authorize her suits, as he wouldn't want her to die. As for the stupid stuff... well, first let me say that, no Samus would never have to jump in lava to test the limitations of the Varia suit, as Prime shows that her HUD warns her when extreme temperatures or corrosive substances are detected in the immediate area, a noise indicating when she's in the danger zone. When the Varia suit is acquired, the HUD's meter still rises to indicate these things, but the noise no longer plays when she's in superheated rooms, although it still plays when she's too close to lava, indicating that her suit knows its temperature and corrosion limits, and so Samus would know about this without having to jump in. By the way, this is a very silly response to a very silly accusation. And as for the baby Metroid, while I certainly wouldn't have let the thing live, the factor that is a woman's desire to be a mother is something that I couldn't say Samus is beyond. PTSD, as I said, is manga-contained, and the manga itself shows that Samus could and did recover from it. Maternal instincts, however, are not something that have been shown to be incompatible with her character in any way. Certainly, looking back on it objectively, it seems like a stupid decision, but not unthinkable from Samus who had basically no experience in this area, whereas something so combat-related (combat being the field in which Samus is the most well-versed and logical) as using your best armor is something that Samus would not act stupidly about.
Now this is a rather unnecessary thing to say. I could just as easily tell you to get used to the idea that she didn't want to follow the orders, as Fusion says she doesn't. I'm not even sure what the point was. I'll respond to DH later. For now, WWE Raw is on. |
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| TheNumberOneShmuck | Oct 5 2010, 03:14:05 AM Post #50 |
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\_O__/ *Orton pose*
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As I said in my previous post, Other M's Samus was more emotive than Fusion's Samus, but Fusion's Samus experienced emotion and character growth in a way that expanded the character we'd seen in previous games, without contradicting them. As for the lack of emotion, it's been a while since I've played Fusion, but I find your accusation that Samus lacked emotion in it to be off. By how much, I'm not entirely sure, I'll have to go through the game again and take note of the goings-on to refresh my memory before I'll feel truly comfortable diving as deep as I need to on that subject, but I do know she did more than just explain the situation.
Once more, if you involve PTSD, you involve the manga, and if you involve the manga, you involve Samus getting over PTSD. Plus, combat training of most any kind does indeed involve mental toughening, because mentally weak, unstable, or unfocused people are generally not as effective in stressful combat situations, where keeping a clear head makes a huge difference. To make it clear, it's the manga that shows Samus getting over PTSD; I'm just rationalizing it for the purposes of this debate. After all, if she just got over PTSD "because" I'd call BS on that.
Actually, the Chozo valued knowledge and power. They were very advanced technologically, and yet still maintained pride in their lineage of warriors. That's the Chozo that have been presented to me in the series. They embrace technology and disciplined skill, not harmony with nature. Speaking of which, I'm not seeing where that perception came from. The manga, the only direct portrayal I know of, shows them ordering their robots to destroy some alien plants and creatures because of the potential threat they posed, and the games haven't done anything for the nature thing either, to the best of my memory. Not to say that they didn't care about nature, or take interest in the ecosystem of their world, but it's never been presented as a priority. They may not be bloodthirsty, but not being bloodthirsty doesn't mean that Samus's combat training and DNA infusion at the hands of a culture with a proud tradition of fierce warriors would be guaranteed to make her the perfect figure of compassion, who is one with nature, and would never take the seemingly cold-hearted, but ultimately logical, option if there were a seemingly "kinder" one available even if it made less objective sense. Maybe the Chozo wanted the super-virtuous Saviour of the galaxy, but that doesn't necessarily mean they got one. The fact is that Samus became a bounty hunter. She leans in favour of what generally seems right to most of us, but she still ultimately kills things (and does some other stuff too, but she still kills a lot) for money. She is, at some level, a hardened killer. This doesn't take away the possibility that she could also be emotional or frightened at some level, but she does have higher standards for mental strength, and I say that because you really have to in order to live with that job as long as she has. And really, you seem to be falling into the trap I warned against in my big rant, about assuming I'm rooting for the "machine made for fighting" That's not an extreme I'm in favor of, it's just that the Samus that we've seen before, and the one that I liked, is a little closer to that one than the one we got in Other M. |
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| WeirdRaptor | Oct 5 2010, 07:03:10 PM Post #51 |
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WeirdRaptor
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I fail to see how the PTSD is only manga contained. Samus saw two homes get obliterated and she had a front row seat to two families meeting a similar fate. As far as I'm concerned, the PTSD is canon. I will take neither side of this debate, but that is my two cents. |
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| DarkHououmon | Oct 5 2010, 09:51:44 PM Post #52 |
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"Be prepared, Snappy boy. Your luck has run out..."
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I still believe in what I said and I still stick by it. I already explained my view on several of the common complaints about Metroid Other M and I still haven't changed my views on them. I made each judgment based on what I know about the series, and I am quite familiar with it. However, I am not going to repeat my points like you have. I feel explaining once is enough. I should also point out, I may have forgotten to do this, that the manga is now canon to the games, so observations made in the manga do count when making judgments on Samus's canon character. Personally, I like the way Samus is portrayed in the manga and in Other M. I'm not fond of the "standard action girl with no emotional flaws" view nor am I fond of the idea of her being a "hardened killer". The way she's portrayed in the manga and Other M makes her feel more human, more real in a way. It also makes her more interesting. It's easy to picture a "hardened killer" to go around fighting giant monsters and holding their own and such. It doesn't come as a surprise. However, put a traumatized young woman in the same situation, and when she starts doing the same stuff, not only does that seem surprising, but it also creates a more unique character. I feel Samus is a much more interesting character as a traumatized young woman defending the galaxy than a hardened woman trained to kill. Anyway I'm not sure if there's anything I could add to this debate at the moment. So that's all I'll say for now. |
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| Truttle | Oct 5 2010, 10:02:16 PM Post #53 |
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Chomper
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Wow...okay....anyway, I agree with DarkHououmon, as this debate only seems to be repeating itself with little acknowledgment of issues pointed out, I will also stick to what I said and leave it at that to avoid any further problems. But for future reference, try to keep your cool and think about what you say.
So I forgot about the visor warning, alright, my bad, I was pictureing Super Metroid at the time, but don't berate as silly. |
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| WeirdRaptor | Oct 5 2010, 10:06:35 PM Post #54 |
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WeirdRaptor
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What I'd like to know is why each new video game releases always result in heated debates like this? Did knew releases and remodels of Chess and its pieces ever garner this much debate way back when? Its stuff like this that makes me almost dread the day Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword gets released, however mild they may be on here on GoF. |
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| Flathead770 | Oct 15 2010, 10:45:30 PM Post #55 |
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Ducky
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I agree. I dont know if i stated it before but i find the contrast of the emotional cutscenes and badass actions Samus performs (like lethal strikes) quite appealing. Im not gonna go into detail about what i liked/disliked since i already mentione that before, but i really enjoyed the game and its easily the best story in any metroid game. Has anyone watched the Theater Mode yet? Its probably the closet thing we'll ever get to a Metroid Movie. Also, has anyone tried playing it on hard yet? (you need to get 100% to unlock hard). If anyone wonders what it will be like, you get absolutely NO PICKUPS at all. That means you will have only 99 energy and 10 missiles the whole game (equilivalent to a 1% run of Metroid Fusion pretty much). If you hated the idea of concentration for any reason, you love that its there for hard. You also need to be very efficient with lethal strikes, overblasts, and the sense move/charge (since you get no accel-charges) and exploit them whenever you can. Also as a heads up, Ridley is a pain. With both his tail attacks killing you in one hit and everything else bringing you down to near death. I was dissapointed that you cant do the bonus ending on hard though, the game stops after the Metroid Queen and MB. |
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| Littlefoot1616 | Oct 17 2010, 05:14:53 AM Post #56 |
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The Inquisitive Quadruped (admin)
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Just to tip things another way slightly, has anyone recovered "the important irreplaceable item"? |
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| pokeplayer984 | Oct 17 2010, 08:11:20 AM Post #57 |
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Yes, that's a new Pokemon!
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I have. The reason it's irreplaceable is because it has sentimental value. That's all I'll say with that one. As for Hard Mode? Too hard for my tastes. Won't be trying that anytime soon. |
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| StarfallRaptor | Oct 17 2010, 04:44:13 PM Post #58 |
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For the ones I love...
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Okay, finally working up enough guts to post my theories about the suit vanishing and Samus's reaction to Ridley. I think that her suit shut down when Adam shot her due to the shot being some sort of electromagnetic-type shot. Then, not only would it overload the suit, but also cause a temporary function problem in Samus herself. Basically, it overloaded the suit and the parts of her brain that control it. Kinda like a Tazer, only worse. As to Ridley, I think it was less PTSD, more the "serial killer syndrome". Think of it this way. This game happens after Super Metroid. During which she shot Ridley to death, saw him fall in a pit of lava, burn, then the planet itself exploded. I think anyone would be freaked out. I could almost see her saying, in a panic, Samus: Ridley? But you...you're... Ridley: Dead? I mean, really, who wouldn't freak out? |
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| pokeplayer984 | Oct 17 2010, 05:09:00 PM Post #59 |
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Yes, that's a new Pokemon!
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^^ I STILL don't get how Ridley survived that. I mean, how CAN you survive that? I think everyone's jaw dropped when they found that out. Seriously, is Ridley invincible or something? |
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| DarkHououmon | Oct 17 2010, 05:30:35 PM Post #60 |
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"Be prepared, Snappy boy. Your luck has run out..."
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Well I did read something that might help it make sense. From what I heard, the Ridley Samus faces in Other M is actually a clone. The original Ridley really did die on Zebes and someone created a clone of Ridley and it is the clone that Samus fights/encounters in Other M and Fusion, not the original Ridley. |
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3:31 AM Jul 11